SB defense question

[Nate tha' Great]

What is proper SB defense strategy given the following parameters?

- The game uses a 2:3 blind structure (e.g. Party 15/30).
- The BB is passive and about average in terms of looseness.
- The Button will raise very aggressively, perhaps 50 percent of the time that he has the opportunity to steal or a little bit more. He is also capable of 4-betting (capping) with a marginal hand.
- The Button plays very aggressively but relatively well postflop, especially in position, and mixes his play pretty well.
- However the Button has a tragic, exploitable flaw which is to go too far / pay off too much with second best hands.
- The Button knows how you play and vice versa.

Am I correct that I ought to be doing somewhat more calling than usual?

[SpaceAce]

I think I would rather do more reraising to get rid of the big blind and to let me exploit the button's weaknesses.

SpaceAce

[Robk]

maybe you saw it, good thread

[mmcd]

I think calling is better here. Checkraise (or lead with the intention of 3-betting) any flops that are somewhat favorable.

There is not much of a reason to 3-bet here if the button is good/very aggro postflop. If the bb decides to come along:

1) Given his position between you and the Aggro PFR, he should be easy to get rid of postflop if doesn't hit too good.

2) It will have the effect of punishing the button, and will probably discourage him from stealing with his more marginal hands. Especially if he's they type to keep the pressure on after the flop.


Maybe its just my style, but I like flat-calling out of te sb in these situations more than most. It gives me more flexibility in terms of how I pay my hand postflop, and gives me more of an opportunity to outplay my opponent.

When you 3-bet here, you will be putting in a bare minimum of 4sb out of position, and with no information whatsoever.

[Noo Yawk]

Hi Nate,

I tend to more re-raising from the SB and more calling from the BB. In the situation you've described I want to make sure I do at least 2 things:

1) Do what I can to get the BB out.

2) Make sure the Button steals less often in the future.

Since you have a good idea of the range of hands your opponent has, and can exploit his leak, you have an edge that you need to take advantage of. When he wants to steal, you need to be the opponent he dreads having in the blinds.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
I think calling is better here. Checkraise (or lead with the intention of 3-betting) any flops that are somewhat favorable.

There is not much of a reason to 3-bet here if the button is good/very aggro postflop. If the bb decides to come along:

1) Given his position between you and the Aggro PFR, he should be easy to get rid of postflop if doesn't hit too good.

2) It will have the effect of punishing the button, and will probably discourage him from stealing with his more marginal hands. Especially if he's they type to keep the pressure on after the flop.


Maybe its just my style, but I like flat-calling out of te sb in these situations more than most. It gives me more flexibility in terms of how I pay my hand postflop, and gives me more of an opportunity to outplay my opponent.

When you 3-bet here, you will be putting in a bare minimum of 4sb out of position, and with no information whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I understand "more calling" is that he would be lowering his standards for entering the pot after a raise. As a general rule, I want to see as many people as possible (ie, the big blind) go away when I am going to be playing less-than-great cards.

SpaceAce

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Nate,

I tend to more re-raising from the SB and more calling from the BB. In the situation you've described I want to make sure I do at least 2 things:

1) Do what I can to get the BB out.

2) Make sure the Button steals less often in the future.

Since you have a good idea of the range of hands your opponent has, and can exploit his leak, you have an edge that you need to take advantage of. When he wants to steal, you need to be the opponent he dreads having in the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

My default play in steal situations is to do a lot of 3-betting from the SB, and not a lot of calling in steal situations.

This case might be an exception, however.

a) The way to make money from this sort of opponent is to value bet like crazy when you hit a flop. A lot of the benefit to 3-betting from the SB comes from what are essentially re-stealing opportunities: you have QJs, your opponent has K6, and the flop comes A84 rainbow. If you 3-bet against an 'ordinary' opponent, you are likely to pick up the pot with the worse hand. The problem is, this guy just won't always go away if the cards come that way, and it's hard to play against someone like that out of position if your hand has little intrinsic showdown value. Of course I'm happy to 3-bet with a hand like ATo or 77, but in general you'll need to hit the flop anyway to win, and there's added incentive to see some flops because when you do hit them, you'll usually get paid off pretty well.

b) There certainly would be some benefit to decreasing his steal percentage, but some of these guys prove themselves to be fairly incorrigiable, and to a certain extent a 'team effort' between you and the BB may have the same deterrant effect as frequent 3-bets.

[mmcd]

A lot of the benefit to 3-betting from the SB comes from what are essentially re-stealing opportunities: you have QJs, your opponent has K6, and the flop comes A84 rainbow. If you 3-bet against an 'ordinary' opponent, you are likely to pick up the pot with the worse hand. The problem is, this guy just won't always go away if the cards come that way

I guess part of the point I was trying to make (but maybe didn't do so clearly) is that it's often easier to win without the best if you just call preflop. You are in a better position to represent whatever the hell happens to hit the board, and if you are adept enough at convincing him that you hit (and are showdown bound), he's less likely to try fancy re-re-steal type plays.

As for playing against these types out of position, I think most of the difficulties arise when you are out of position with the lead. By letting your opponent keep the lead preflop, you have a high degree of flexibility in determining whether and how you will play the rest of the hand.

If you check, he will bet. Then you can call, fold or raise.

Against some of them if you bet out, he will raise. Then you can 3-bet, stop-and-go, or call and attempt a turn checkraise.

By 3-betting, you give him the choice of how to play the hand postflop. You will bet the flop, then he can call, fold, or raise. This is problematic for you as he far less likely than most to simply fold. If he raises or calls, then you are in a somewhat untenable position assuming you don't have much of hand. You have put 4sb into the pot, and have no clue where he is at or what his intentions for the rest of the hand are.

By calling, you can get away with investing 2sb, the times the post-flop situation seems fairly unfavorable, and those times you choose to checkraise him, your 4sb investment will produce a lot more information, and also give you more of an opportunity to pick-up the pot.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
- The Button will raise very aggressively, perhaps 50 percent of the time that he has the opportunity to steal or a little bit more. He is also capable of 4-betting (capping) with a marginal hand.
- The Button plays very aggressively but relatively well postflop, especially in position, and mixes his play pretty well.
- However the Button has a tragic, exploitable flaw which is to go too far / pay off too much with second best hands.
- The Button knows how you play and vice versa.


[/ QUOTE ]

you're not talking about me are you? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
you're not talking about me are you? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You were on my left last night. Also, if the post were about you, I would have entitled it "SB defense against a maniac".

btw, how much did I drop at that freaking table last night? $1700?