AQ from EP

pdubz · #1 09-30-2004, 03:15 AM

Two hands that have been bugging me. A litle new to multi-table tournaments, so just wondering if my game plan was right but unlucky, or not correct to begin with. This is maybe my 4th or 5th multi.

In the first hand we're down to about 100 players from 450, 50 get paid. Average stack is t5000.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (10 handed)

SB (t3290)
BB (t4660)
UTG (t8570)
UTG+1 (t20285)
Hero (t5970)
MP1 (t6747)
MP2 (t3742)
MP3 (t2590)
CO (Villain) (t7750)
Button (t2975)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t900, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (Villain) raises to t3100, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t4450
Main Pot: t2250 (t2250), won by Villain.
Pot 2: t2200 (t2200), returned to Villain.

So I'm feeling a little uneasy about this, but I'm still around average and I feel confident about placing. Down to about 80 people, average stack t6000, then this happens [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (10 handed)

Button (Villain) (t5880)
SB (t7870)
BB (t5280)
UTG (t16575)
Hero (t4620)
UTG+2 (t6897)
MP1 (t4592)
MP2 (t2590)
MP3 (t8650)
CO (t3625)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero raises to t750, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button (Villain) raises to t1850, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to t4620 (All-In), Button (Villain) calls t2770.

Flop: (t9690) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t9690) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t9690) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t9690
Main Pot: t9690 (t9690), between Villain and Hero.

He had JJ, and I busted out.

It felt awful to be close to the money with a reasonable stack and then bust out. Should I just fold AQ from EP when its close to the money? That seems rather tight -- but maybe its correct? Should I have taken a flop in the second hand? In this case, am I pushing any A/Q? Obviously I'm making the raises with the intent to take the blinds -- but are the odds from EP that I will get reraised enough to make this unprofitable? I couldn't tell if Villain's min-raise was meant to commit himself to a reraise-all in, provoke me to push, or give himself room to get away if SB/BB interfered. So granted, in all of this, I was a coinflip, but that's probably not what I wanted at this stage in the tournament...

I'm feeling like the push here was really bad tournament strategy. Comments?

shawn_p · #2 09-30-2004, 04:59 PM

I don't like to attempt a steal from up front w/ a marginal raising hand such as AQo or (AJs, KQs, KQo, JJ, 10 10, 9 9). If I'm going to play these hands I'll limp in and possibly call a raise to see a flop as long as I know that my call will close the preflop action. When I attempt a steal up front I'll do it w/ a hand that is easy to get away from or if I only get called I can bust someone w/, hands like 6s7s.

I think you need to have a good read on a players style to be able to play AQo up front for a reraise. If he's a loose aggresive type who'll try a reraise steal from the button then you've got to push w/ your marginal raising hand and hope for the best. If he's a tight type of player you've got to think of the range of hands that he could be reraising w/ hands like (AA, KK, QQ, AKs/AKo) are most likely his reraising hands and have you beat. Hands like (AJs, A10s, KQs) are less likely and you have them dominated, other hands like medium pairs are a coinflip.

It seems you don't have much fold equity to reraise in either hand so if you play in either spot expect to put you whole stack in jeopardy.

pdubz · #3 09-30-2004, 05:10 PM

But it would not be unreasonable to fold, given my chip position?

shawn_p · #4 09-30-2004, 05:24 PM

Folding is an option, although a weak play imo. I hate to raise and fold w/ a hand I would have liked to see a flop w/. If you simply limp you give your self a chance to take a flop w/ a decent hand although you're out of position. I just like to avoid these kind of decisions by not raising w/ a marginal raise hand out of position.

pdubz · #5 09-30-2004, 05:50 PM

And you throw the hand away if you get raised >3xBB? Or whatever is significant to your stack-size/average stack sizes?

patrick dicaprio · #6 09-30-2004, 06:48 PM

on the first hand i usually call in this spot, as i dont want to be reraised with this hand. rarely do i wantto play AQ for a raise when it is not high blinds or short stack time.

on the second, i feel the same way in that i dont want to call an all in with AQ. What hands do you think he has that youbeat here? very very few. once he raises to 1850 it is unlikely he is going to fold since he is a big stack has you covered and has a very good hand. i understand what you were trying to do but some players just dont figure it out as they only see their cards and dont think about yours.

Pat

betgo · #7 09-30-2004, 10:59 PM

As far as raising with AQ, in most situations I would, even from early position.

Both of these reraises pretty much force you to commit all your chips, even though they are not allin.

If your opponent has AK, KK, or QQ you are about a 3-1 underdog; against AA more than 10-1. If he has AJ, AT, or KQ you are a 3-1 favorite. If he is making a move with a suited connector or something, you are about a 3-2 favorite. Against an underpair, you are a slight underdog.

The important thing here is your read on your opponent. If your opponent has been playing solidly, you need to fold. If he has been making a lot of loose raises or reraises, it is a clear call (or push). Also, I would be much more inclined to call or raise a very big stack or a very small stack than a medium stack.

davidross · #8 09-30-2004, 11:27 PM

I don't like the advice to limp with AQ in EP. I think that's a mistake. I raise the exact amount you did, and throw it away to a serious re-raise. Unfortunately once you have done it once, the dynamics change, and I would be slightly more likely to play the 2nd hand, as you did. I don't like calling, so all-in or fold is the way to go out of position. You have enough chips to fold and still be alive, but if you think he might be trying to push you around the push is good. JJ I would have been happy to see. Bad luck.

Nick B. · #9 09-30-2004, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the advice to limp with AQ in EP. I think that's a mistake. I raise the exact amount you did, and throw it away to a serious re-raise. Unfortunately once you have done it once, the dynamics change, and I would be slightly more likely to play the 2nd hand, as you did. I don't like calling, so all-in or fold is the way to go out of position. You have enough chips to fold and still be alive, but if you think he might be trying to push you around the push is good. JJ I would have been happy to see. Bad luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally some sound advice in this forum.