Party 15-30 KQh

[dsw1977]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the hand history for this one. This came up in a "typical" Party 15-30 game, I'd only been at the table for a couple of rounds, but the norm was 3-4 players seeing each flop for two bets. I had no relevant reads or notes on the players, and stacks were not important. I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in MP.

UTG calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, all call. Six to the flop for 2 sb each.

6 players (12SB)

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB 3-bets, all call.

6 players (15BB)

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

3 players (26BB)

River: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls.

Results don't really matter, but BB shows J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and MHIG.

What I'm wondering about is the play on the turn. Was this a bad spot to 3-bet? Should I have called, which might have generated more action behind me? My thinking was to make A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], a set or 2 pair pay for that river card, but since none of those hands are folding anyway, and given the size of the pot which may lead marginal hands (a single worse heart, AK) hanging around behind me, would it have been a better play to just call the 2 bets?

What if all else was the same, but I was UTG rather than MP - would it then be a clear call rather than 3-bet?

Thanks.

[MrGo]

If you were UTG, I believe calling is the right play with > 3 players behind you. Because you are in MP and because you got the extra bet from UTG, I beleive you did the right thing in raising. I don't think the CO and button would have called 2 bets anyway.

[DrGutshot]

I would have coldcalled the 2 bets on the flop...but after it was 3bet behind you and everyone called, isn't it a value cap?

[Fianchetto]

Why no raise preflop?

Other than that I think you played it well.

[Barry]

This is an easy PF raise in this game.

3-betting the turn is fine here. There already was plenty of action before it got to for you to worry about the folks yet to act.

[dsw1977]

I'll sometimes raise KQs from MP in this game, but like to have a little better feel for the table first. Given that 3-4 way action for 2 bets was pretty standard in the 15 or so hands I'd seen, and noone had seemed hyper-aggressive, I guess it would have been an ok spot to make that raise.

The value-cap on the flop is not a bad idea after it is 3-bet behind me, anyone else have thoughts on this?

Thanks for the input.

[Philuva]

I would have raised preflop.

On the flop, somtimes I would cap, sometimes not.

On the turn, easy 3 bet. Most likely, the 3 players before you seem to like their hand to call 2 (SB) or 1 (BB and UTG) more bets. Although, it seems strange that UTG would call 2 cold and then fold to a 3rd bet. Given the action on the flop and turn, the two players behind you would need a real hand that would probably call both 2 bets or 3 bets. I can't imagine any hand they would play in this situation that they would call for 2 bets, but fold to 3 bets.

[bicyclekick]

Isn't not raising this hand PF a decently substantial mistake?!

Super weak man! I can't imagine what you raise if you don't raise KQs here.

Flop is ok I guess cause then you're more likely to get the players in late position putting money in with hands that if you hit are drawing dead. No nead to push anyone off.

My thoughts on the turn are that you should call and again encourage them to call with hands they are drawing more than likely dead with. Who knows, the sb or bb could have the ace high flush anyhow. I can see the arguement for 3 betting though to get your money in with the flush if you're up against a set or something...but still, I think calling 2 cold again is the correct play.

[TonyBlair]

I raise to 3 bets preflop. You must have realised after 2 rounds that this was looooose.
I call and then sometimes cap/sometimes call again on the flop. Depends. It would have been very tempting to cap this one because it seems no-one likes folding.
By the turn you just want to get your money in in my opinion. Make the freaks pay. You seem to be talking yourself into going easy on them. Definitely 3 bet it.

[bicyclekick]

I think there is stuff to be learned in this hand (at least by me) and I wish more players would chime in with their thoughts.

I'm curious if my thinking is spot on with some of the other top players...