100-200 AA

[mike l.]

here's one i played a few nights ago that i was thinking about today. this hand was played at commerce, not online.

i had AA in the bb. utg+1 guy i dont know raises, folded around to me and i 3 bet, he calls.

the flop is 862 and i bet and he calls.

the turn is 9. i bet, he raises, i 3 bet, he 4 bets. should i 5 bet here or call and how close is it?

[Michael Davis]

Just call down. Not close. One of you is drawing to two outs, no? Once he comes over your threebet, I'm inclined to think it's you. He might be in a position where he can continue to reraise confidently, and you're not. I think you're still ahead against another overpair some of the time here, but I don't think it's any better than 50-50 and probably worse.

That being said, you also put in 750 bets with AT with top pair and it was the best hand. So if you fivebet and were right, all is good. Only if you're right.

-Michael

[andyfox]

Unknown guy, without any read on him: he doesn't 4-bet pre-flop; he just calls the flop. Now he raises and 4-bets the turn when I've shown as much strength as possible. I'd just call him down with my one pair. And if it turns out he has a big pocket pair and I could have won one more bet, I wouldn't worry about it a few days later.

[KushP]

He clearly has kings or queens here, I would've gone to a thousand bets if given the oppurtunity.

[andyfox]

How are you so sure (other than that mike posted this saying he was thinking about the hand two days later? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])
Would he not play the hand the same way with a flopped set?

[Boopotts]

I would have check raised the turn. He'll bet with any hand that's drawing fairly live (e.g, pocket 7's, or some other pair-with-a-gutshot combo) and he might take a poke at it with a hand that's in real trouble. Also, there's nothing wrong with giving a hand like KQ a free card on a board like this.

In regards to the five bet decision, I don't know how anyone could comfortable comment on that if they weren't at the table with you when the hand took place.

[shemp]

Call. Not knowing (or thinking you know) is sometimes better. This is a case where it's better to not keep raising to the point where you feel beat, but curious, because the guy is unknown.

Moving backwards. If your main concern is letting the river go check-check with the best hand. Then go for a river check raise after calling his turn raise if you like the river, or bet out and call a raise if you are unsure. You are out of position and have a pair and he 4-bet the turn.

A pay-him-off-in-advance turn four bet is pretty moronic, and not something to assume from an unknown, and actually not someplace I want to assign. If you go dead after his turn raise, he'll continue on the river. Here you are playing against a range of hands many of which you beat, and not escalating things in the hopes that he's going wild.

If you want to tend towards ruling out 75 and 98 because of preflop, then that leaves 77 and some overpairs (being ever hopeful), so you call, because enough better hands are still ruled in. If you want to rule in 75 and with it hands you beat, like a 7 and a pair, or a relatively live monster like T9, well, there are still enough hands that have you beat.

Let's see what this guy has. I've never played that high, but it's a simple question whether a turn 4-bet from an unknown player is from a worse hand a certain percentage of the time (do you know that percentage?). I'm guessing that it may happen pretty often, but the answer is 'no' regarding exceeding that percentage (do you know what it is?) to justify a 5-bet.

[Tyler Durden]

Off topic, but say you do 5bet, what's it like to make it $1,000 on a street (you know i'm not the only one thinking this)?

[RiverMel]

It's like puppies and rainbows!

[shemp]

Goodness. I agree w/ the venerable FOX. It seems one wants to put him on exactly KK because Qs, Js, and Ts feel more likely to give more action preflop, but Ks will get tricky, and mike l.'s already been tricky by not smooth calling the nuts preflop. Piffle. Set aside that if he does this with exactly KK, he also does this with sets: If there is an argument for open raising 98 2UTG, this is it. Some poor bastard with an overpair will go to the felt on the turn. God bless him.