TPTK

[Under Control]

Party 50 NL, 4 handed

SB: 80
BB: 40
CO: 45
Hero(Button): 65

Co folds to me and I raise to 4 with AT diamonds, SB raises to 10, I call

Flop (21) T97 2 hearts, 1 spade


SB bets 15, I call

Turn (51) 3c SB puts me all in, I fold

Is this pretty standard or could I have gotten out earlier?

[JrJordan]

With 4 players at a table, a lot of actions really become player dependent. Does he normally reraise you PF, expecting to take the pot there? If not, I'd probably lay this down preflop to the reraise. Almost every legit reraising hands beat you, AJ, AQ, AK, JJ, QQ, KK and AA.

I think any raise on the flop makes you pot committed, so if you really want to see how you fare up, the best line is to call this flop like you did. If he's bluffing, he most likely won't fire another round on the turn. Make it easy on yourself though and fold preflop.

[Under Control]

Yeah, my first instinct was to toss this one before the flop, but if you fold to such a small raise four handed in position with ATs, i'm not really seeing how you can play anything for a raise. I was just scared that I would start getting run over. And I'm paying 6 to win 15, so even if i'm a 2:1 or 3:1 dog , I'm getting odds to call. I know that those odds depend on all five cards, but in combination with the other factors, that was my reasoning to play the hand. If he did in fact have a had that dominates me that he would easily become pot-stuck with, I also reasoned that i could flop 2 pair or better and bust him. I can definitely see the reasoning behind what JrJordan said, but I'd like to hear more thoughts.

[LinusKS]

AT is a crap hand ten-handed, but 4-handed I think it's pretty good.

You made about the best hand you could have asked for on the flop - short of two pair or trip Ts.

On the turn it cost you $40 to win a $90 pot.

I couldn't have laid that down.

At a full table I would have expected a big pair, but here I think there's too good a chance he's bluffing with a big ace or a small pair - or even just a random hand.

[EvlG]

While I am not crazy about the call on the flop, there are enough players who reraise with weaker suited Aces and medium pocket pairs in this situation that I can see why want to call this at least some of the time. However something to consider is that you raised preflop, and that should give you enough information to fold when he comes over the top. What do you do when there is an Ace on the flop, for example?

Fine, you call, and on the flop you have TPTK. He bets into you. You have to think now what hands could he have raised with and bet out with that you can beat?

Any smaller T is unlikely - KT, QT, JT, even suited, are probably not going to be reraising hands, even for the average player at this level.

Perhaps he had pocket 88 and is semibluffing very aggressively, especially if he figures you for overcards to the T. However, to get this read you would have to accept that he would reraise preflop with them, and then bet them so aggressively. Not many players at that level are capable of doing this, and if he did so, good for him. Ultimately I think you have to rate this possibility as not likely also.

That leaves a heart draw that you are ahead of. AKh or maybe AQh are really the only ones you can see him reraising preflop with. However, does he bet out twice with it? Again, this type of play is unlikely at this level. I think this would be more likely in a live game where a very good player could see you and sense your strength/weakness.

So what hands did he reraise and bet out twice with? Any pocket pair from TT on up is possible. 77 is unlikely, as he would probably just call preflop. Maybe he reraised with 99, but I think that is significantly less likely than TT. We already discussed 88 above, and any pair lower than 77 is extremely unlikely.

My best read is QQ-AA are most likely, JJ somewhat less likely, and there is a decent chance he was pushing his set very agressively because he was scared by the draw-heavy board. However, most players at this level seem to try to keep you in the hand when they hit a set, so I rate that as less likely.

So I think you should strongly consider folding preflop, but if you decide to go with it, you have to see the turn at least to see what he does. Since he didn't check you probably made the right play.

[JohnG]

Making it to the turn and then folding is generally a poor idea.

Usually, given ratios, move in on flop. If that is not comfortable for you when you hit top pair, then that just means you should have folded to the re-raise preflop.

If you sometimes call the flop bet for some specific reason with these type of hands on these ratios, it is not with intention of folding the turn when a blank hits. Doing so with that intention is normally only a decent option when there would be more than 1 bet left in stacks after you call flop.

And looking at the hand again, the actual ratios on the flop are such that I'd never call the flop bet with a top pair type hand here. Move in on flop, or fold preflop.

[Under Control]

After the hand he did flip over KK. So why isn't making small reraises like this preflop correct with any hand occasionally in shorthanded play? Will most people call with whatever hand they had?

[Justin A]

Remember that you can and should play ATs for a raise in a four handed game. You should have folded this because it's a reraise. Reraises should be respected a lot more.

Justin A

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Making it to the turn and then folding is generally a poor idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain?

Justin A

[josie_wales]

Under Control,

I could see this hand being played differently (not necessarily better) in a few spots.

First, the raise is a good idea, but make it more than $4...When he plays back at you after your $4 raise, he could be playing you for a steal....or could have you in bad shape.

On the flop, you call the 15.

This is where I have the problem. Think ahead to what you will do on the turn if he puts you in.

If you will fold....THEN FOLD NOW.

If you would call that turn all-in bet, then raise HIM all in NOW. It gives you more ways to win, and you should want to bet your chips away, rather than call them away.

jw