check raise becomes check out these guys taking a free card

imsomoney · #1 07-30-2004, 12:30 AM

I've never been good with the check raise, but I'm trying to use it to my advantage when I see an opportunity. I thought I had one here. Does it go wrong because I was the PF raiser and they saw it coming or is this an anomaly? Was this even the right time to try? (I knew my had was quite vulnerable.) It was a typical loose and aggressive table... Comments appreciated [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (7.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, BB calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

DMBFan23 · #2 07-30-2004, 12:39 AM

Here are my amateur comments.

PF: KJo is a muck 100% of the time UTG for me, 0% of the time a raise.

Flop: the attempted check raise fails, nothing you can do about that. do most people favor betting here (given that you are in the hand to begin with)?

Turn/River: I like the bets here.

P.S. this table seems pretty passive

cold_cash · #3 07-30-2004, 12:39 AM

I'd fold pre-flop.

Most of the time against 6 opponents someone will bet the flop, but I wouldn't chance it here. Getting a bet from the cutoff or button would be nice, but having it checked around would be about an 8 on the my suckiness scale. Even though it's a long shot, why risk it?

Since you raised pre-flop people expect you bet, giving free cards bites, and you probably have the best hand. Bet.

cartoonsoldier · #4 07-30-2004, 01:17 AM

PF fold as said.

As you were the aggressor PF, they would be hesitant to bet into you on the flop so you need to bet out.

Nemesis · #5 07-30-2004, 01:32 AM

I think this is a must check-raise situation. If you simply bet out... any weak draw has odds to call profitably. If you check-raise a late posistion player, then well they get 9:1 at least on their call.... hmm nevermind seems you can't make this call unprofitable for them. Bet out and get your money in while you're ahead.

*edit* the check raise would be useful for knocking out lone overcards that could otherwise call profitably.

Zetack · #6 07-30-2004, 01:32 AM

With that many people in who cold called two and all of them acting behind you it is very surprising no one bet the flop. So, yeah, not a bad place to try and check raise if you are so inclined.

A check raise wouldn't be my first instinct here, but it has some advantages--depending on where the bet comes from you may have a better chance at knocking out aces and queens, and it traps in weaker hands for another bet. Also if anybody's paying attention to you, they will know that a check after a PF raise doesn't necessarily mean a missed flop.

Downside, you tend to get less information from it. I like betting out to see if I get raised anywhere (and because I think I have the best hand of course).

--Zetack

cartoonsoldier · #7 07-30-2004, 01:36 AM

For me simply put, when he raised PF the players behind will be afraid to bet the flop and opt for the free card because they will be fearing the C-R.

I would go for the C-R only if I was sure somebody would bet.

imsomoney · #8 07-30-2004, 10:06 AM

I agree that the PF raise was a mistake, I cringed after I hit the button. I lucked out on this one as far as taking the pot home...it could have been much worse. If anyone has a hand where they used the check/raise successfully I would love to take a look at it. I think I'm having trouble identifying the ideal situation... Thanks for your help!