overplaying AK?

[jcaesar]

Prima 2.5/5 NL

I have AKs with ~400 stack in late position. 4 limpers starting from UTG and the blinds are in, before i raise it to $25. Blinds fold, and the limpers all call. I've just sat down a few hands ago so I don't have a terrific read on these players yet but feel like they're generally of the garden loose-low-stack-buy-in variety.

Flop comes
Ks 9d 2d
Pot size: 107.50 - rake
They check to me, and I bet 100, trying to shut out flush draws, and am raised by the first limper to 120 all-in. I call.

Did I overbet my pair of Ks here? A friend tells me that no one is going to call my pot-sized bet of 100 unless I am beat. Instead, he advocates betting about half pot (~$50) on the flop, and another $50 on the turn, letting the flushers draw, and the KQs and KJs call, keeping in mind to be careful if the flush comes. I feel like I'd rather win the big pots immediately (and i felt like $105 was a big pot at that point) and deny ppl opportunities to draw and catch to beat me.

My compatriot, on the other hand, is of the general idea that I overplay hands like AK and get myself into trouble because people see me as over-aggressive and trap me with big hands.

I don't know if I've given enough information here. Just ask if I need to provide more.

[SlyAK]

Caesar,

Good to see you posting here, I think you have taken a bit of money off me in the 2.50/5 games there before [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] (I am playing 1/2 now, less variance and I need to stay there until I get my game improved).

Anyway in regards to your question I think a bet of 2/3 to the pot is appropriate here. 1/2 pot is just letting too many people hang around, and begging for a flush draw to suck out on you. Players will call a pot sized bet with KQ or KJ there. They will also often call a pot-sized bet with just a flush draw if they are feeling lucky, (which of course is good news in the long run). Has your friend ever played online at party or prima??? A lot of players will call with hands that you beat. I would play the hand exactly like you did.

Sly

[jcaesar]

Sly,

you've probably played with him before as well but I don't know for sure that he'd want me to divulge his name [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I already feel nervous as it is posting how I play on prima's server knowing that other prima players probably read it. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[SlyAK]

Caesar,

I wouldnt worry too much about divulging how you play a certain hand here. The players that you are probably making most of your money off of are probably not aware of 2+2.... and hopefully it stays that way [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I imagine I have played with him before though, i have played against most of the occasional players anywhere between the .50/1 and 2.50/5 games at some point.

Sly

[gomberg]

I don't like that advice at all. The pot is already big, there's a big draw out there, make them make a mistake by calling. 1/2 pot bet there lets too many people play for cheap, especially a hand like TJd. Plus, if you play like you're friend described, what do you do on the turn when you bet $50 and someone check-raises you the pot when no flush card appeared? You'll have no idea if it's a bluff or a real hand because of your weak bet. With so many limpers, as soon as 1 person calls, the next people get even better odds, so all of a sudden you could be losing equity by being against a two pair draw and a flush draw. Try to get it heads up at least.

I usually bet at least 3/4 there, and if someone comes over the top, I re-evaluate. Maybe my games are weaker than yours on prima, but I still get plenty of action from small stacks that flop top pair.

[ML4L]

Hey jcasear,

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I've given enough information here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've given me enough to say that your friend is wrong. Personally, I like a bet of $75 here, but $100 is WAY better than $50, especially followed up by only $50 on the turn.

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

[Oman]

There are 2 schools of thought that I have encountered here. You can give the flush draws even pot odds, bringing the pot value up, and hoping the flush dosent come out, or you can win it right there with a big bet. Odds are in your favor the flush isn't going to come out on the turn, giving you the chance to raise them out and add some value to your pot.

The second school of thought, the one that I find works better online (Due to all the bad players), is to always force your opponents to get bad odds on their calls and bets. Because the good players will fold their flush draws with bad odds and the bad players won't, betting the pot will probably make you the most money online in the long run (though with higher cash variances).

I would have done the same thing that you did, and if I had a flush draw and you bet 50 I would have called you, expecting a call from behind.

[TheGrifter]

[ QUOTE ]
I already feel nervous as it is posting how I play on prima's server knowing that other prima players probably read it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're giving away all your secrets.

How's that motorcycle treating you?

[jcaesar]

Thanks for the posts, guys.

Turns out UTG had AA and limped and smooth called my raise and let 4 people into the pot. No improvement for me and he took it down.

[Chazbot2000]

I don't think your betting the pot is incorrect here as you do have to punish flush draws. Your calling the all-in is stack dependent. Are you saying you had to pay another $20 or $120 to call the all in? If it's just an extra $20, then I think you played everything fine. If you had to pay an extra $100 or more, I'd fold. Unless you know the reraiser is a fish, a big check raise usually means someone hit a set or has an overpair.