Should I have played this any differently?

ewile · #1 07-09-2004, 11:12 PM

rereaise pf w/ KQ suited?
bet out on the turn and fold to a raise?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls,

Flop: (12 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: (12 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between MP1 and Hero. > Pot won by MP1 (14 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Qh Kh (straight, king high).
MP1 shows 6s Ks (flush, king high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14 BB.

joker122 · #2 07-10-2004, 12:11 AM

2 things: Usually KQ is an easy fold to a preflop raise. You say, "But I'm suited and I'm getting multiway action!" Yeah, but you're very likely dominated (in fact, UTG almost definately had AK or AQ given his play) and the suitedness won't overcome this often enough to be profitable unless you're a ridiculously good post flop player.

2nd thing: The flop bet is terrible. UTG will raise your bet most of the time, and now you've forced the other players to call 2 cold when you're on a draw. This is not what you want. Check call the flop.

The rest of the hand is fine. You can't really pump this turn because MP's play looks alot like a flush draw.

So, what could you have done differently? Fold preflop, check call the flop. Hope this is clear.

Saborion · #3 07-10-2004, 12:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The rest of the hand is fine. You can't really pump this turn because MP's play looks alot like a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. Not good to pump the turn, sure, but a bet is a must imo, since we can't afford to give a free card to anyone with a spade.

As for coming in with KQs in that spot, I don't know. We may be dominated, sure, but there's 3 cold-callers when it comes to us. In this spot, the BB is somewhat likely to toss in another bet given his current pot odds and good position to the PFR. Still wrong to call?

joker122 · #4 07-10-2004, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As for coming in with KQs in that spot, I don't know. We may be dominated, sure, but there's 3 cold-callers when it comes to us. In this spot, the BB is somewhat likely to toss in another bet given his current pot odds and good position to the PFR. Still wrong to call?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, I actually started a reply to hero's post in which I OKed the preflop call, and then changed it. I would make this call in the BB, so why is the SB so different? I'm still not sure but I really think it comes down to how well you play post flop. What is hero supposed to do when he hits a king or queen high flop and is shown resistence by the pfr? That's a bad spot to be in, and I would want to feel very confident about my post flop game to handle this type of situation.

Michael Davis · #5 07-10-2004, 12:56 AM

You made a mistake betting the flop. Semibluffing has no value here as there's no way on a flop of this type that you're going to fold. Betting for value with two overcards and a straight draw in an unraised pot would be a good play. But with UTG lurking and likely to pop it, no. A checkraise would be a viable alternative if it was likely to get you a free card on the turn, but only works against rare opponents.

You simply must bet the turn here. Everyone else is going to be as afraid of the flush card as you and nobody has to have it. You can't afford to have this turn checked around.

-Michael