15-30 PP. AKo hand.

[Turning Stone Pro]

Full table. usual bandits.

I'm have AhKd in late position. middle position (MP) player limps. I raise. button calls, as does BB and MP. 4 see the flop.

Flop is 10 5 2, two clubs (I dont have a club). Checked to me, I bet. button raises. BB calls, MP folds, I call. 3 see the turn.

Turn is the Kc. (three clubs on board). BB checks. I check(?). Button checks. dammit.

River is the Ac (four clubs on board). BB bets. I muck, as does the button.

Does everyone agree that I completely screwed up by not betting the turn?

How about folding the river? I figured that either the BB, who bet out on the river, or the button behind me still left to act, had a club for sure.

Thoughts? Thanks, this one puzzled me.

TSP

[DcifrThs]

TSP,

on the flop there's 8.66 small bets in the pot and 4 players. you have a bd-straight draw and no outs to any flush. if you're pairs hit they may be contaminated by a flush draw and against 4 players its likely to be a problem. you're getting 2:1 on your flop money and 6.333:1 on your pot odds. there's 4q's (3 really) 2 aces and 2 kings that will help your hand. with the q's you need to catch a jack also (3 of those) so theres 6 b-d outs and 4 "clean" outs (although AT would queer up some of those outs also). the button's raise reeks of a ten. his check on the turn confirms his fear of the draw. there's 7 small bets in the pot and the cold caller was likely drawing either to the straight or the flush. if you choose to play, as you did, i'd be sure to say to myself i need to bet and get out in the tricky situation that may be coming.

that situation arose and i think you need to bet the turn. what do you gain by checking? what do you gain by betting? what does checking cost? what does betting cost? clearly the pot is big enough where you want to win it now and make draws pay even if theres a chance one got there so when its checked to you again you need to bet. if the button folds great, if the bb now checkraises you can fold. if the button raises and the BB calls you can probably fold also pretty safely...

on the river if you have a read on the guy or any reason to suspect 2 pair is good here then call...i agree with you're fold, however as it does look like the bb was on a draw and looking to c-r the turn...

-Barron

[Steve Giufre]

Hey Joe,

You done [censored] yourself on the turn here. You have to bet, especially since the third club just fell. I think you made a good a good laydown on the river, I don't see how the BB can lead into two players on the end without a club. As you said, you also have a player behind you which makes it worse.

Glad to see sometimes you botch a hand here and there too. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[China Willy]

Bet the turn, muck the end. Doesn't look like you could win this one either way, but I think you'll find betting here makes the rest of the decisions much easier.

-CW

[nepenthe]

I most assuredly bet the turn, and see if Button raises again. If not, you have him beat. On the river, without specific reads telling me BB would not bluff bet the river, I call down. Too many party players have been known (by my experience) to do the desperation bluff-bet (or even bluff-RAISE) on the river on a dangerous board as a last-ditch attempt to get the other(s) to fold.