30-60 Ace ten

worm33 · #1 12-15-2003, 04:08 AM

30-60 at Canterbury, sunday afternoon. Playing 7 handed at the moment in a tight, not very aggressive game meaning not much 3 betting going on. I am dealt A10 off UTG and raise. Folded to the cutoff a good player, who calls as does the button who I do not have a much knowledge of and the bb. Flop comes A67 rainbow. BB checks I bet, cutoff folds, and the button raises. BB folds and I 3 bet. Button calls. Turn is an 8 putting a 2 flush on the board. I bet and the button calls. River is a king, and I think for about 20 seconds before betting. Now the button hems and haws, talking about how he was "born at night but not born last night" and thinks for literally 2 minutes, talking about how he cant call, and fianlly calls. Comments?

Phat Mack · #2 12-15-2003, 04:54 AM

and I think for about 20 seconds before betting. Now the button hems and haws, talking about how he was "born at night but not born last night"

I guess he had you on AK, and thought the 20-second delay was a dramatic perfomance. Did he have a smaller two pair?

PS: how often does the 30-60 fly at Canterbury?

astroglide · #3 12-15-2003, 05:53 AM

i don't know of many 'good' players that cold call an utg raiser first in on the cutoff even in a 7-handed game and fold the axx flop, but anyway...

unless you're putting the button on a9/a8 what's the point of the 3bet? if he's calling with those he's certainly calling with a7/a6. do you think he has 89? it's a rainbow ace-high flop. i would think you're either ahead vs a non-ace pair that wants a cheap river / wants to take you off your hand (why knock him out?) or behind to a better ace, 2 pair, or a set (why put more money in with the worst of it?)

i would call the flop.

if he looks like he was going to take a free card i'd bet the turn. otherwise, i'd check. if he bets the turn i'd call. if i didn't believe his bet, i'd bet any river card. if i did believe it, i'd check/call any river card.

if he checks the turn i'd bet any river card.

cero_z · #4 12-15-2003, 01:36 PM

Hi worm,
I'm guessing he called and showed you AJ or maybe AQ. As you said, there wasn't much 3-betting going on, so I can see him just calling pre-flop with either of those facing an UTG raiser and a cold-caller. Another possibility is A8, which he was planning to raise you with on the river. Now he seems to put you on AK. You played the hand well, though. Some players will play this way with 98s, and there are probably some worse hands they'd play against you (do you have an overaggressive image?-most players who use Rounders-related nicknames do). If he has a better hand, he hasn't shown enough strength, so you've saved money. You are gonna have to spend a BB on both the turn and river regardless.

Vehn · #5 12-15-2003, 01:51 PM

$30/$60 goes full time now, at least from noon to 3amish or more, often with a must move game in the evenings. It has for a year now since the 30/60 stud/8 game dried up.

As far as this hand goes I have only 2 questions: 1) why do you ("worm33") think that any of the $30/$60 coldcalling brigade are good players and 2) why did you take 20 seconds to bet the river?

Al_Capone_Junior · #6 12-15-2003, 02:04 PM

If he raised the flop, called your three-bet, called the turn, then hemmed and hawed that long on the river, I'd be inclined to bet into him on the river more often. You played fine, IMO.

al

rory · #7 12-15-2003, 02:05 PM

I usually fold A10o 7 handed UTG-- even 6 handed I might fold it depending on the table. It's the type of hand where I am never happy even if I make my hand-- to make it worse being UTG makes my position awful for the rest of the hand. If someone calls my raise I very well could be playing the worst hand out of position. At best I would call with it, but since calling 7 handed is weak I would just fold it and pick a better spot.

I guess my rule of thumb for preflop play is: if I make my hand and I am seriously worried about my kicker I have no business being in the hand from EP in the first place.

As far as the rest of the hand goes, I am guessing your opponent is sitting on AQ and is putting you on AK or a pair of Ks after you thought for so long before betting. If he has been hanging on with you this far he has to have something good, especially since you billed the game as "not very aggressive" and he came out raising you on the flop. Maybe I'm weak tight but I have to check the river here and hope for a free showdown.

Hope he had an overplayed A9s!

-rory

worm33 · #8 12-15-2003, 03:56 PM

I guess it was pretty obvious that I lost this hand, otherwise I probably wouldnt have posted it, when he calls me down with ace rag and i take it down. Anyway, after his performance I was extremely surprised when he caled. And then when he called, I was pretty much stacking my chips back up. Anyway I flip up my a10 and he flips up his AhQh and cant believe his hand was good. Because definitly the only hand I'm going to 3 bet there on the flop and raise under the gun is ak or a set of 7's or 6's. I wonder what goes through these peoples minds. But anyway I thought about it on the river, because I figured he would not bet the river with AJ or AQ because of my "performance." And I thought he might fold A10 and possibly call with A9 or A8. I dont know I thought I played the hand fine, just wondering what you guys were thinking. By the way Vehn, the "good player" who called my raise pre-flop was Mark W. Not exactly world class but not cold calling utg raises with cheese either.

astroglide · #9 12-15-2003, 05:07 PM

as per my original post, i don't believe you played the hand fine. i don't see a singular reason to 3bet the flop.

Vehn · #10 12-15-2003, 08:19 PM

I was actually going to say you lose to AJ but pretty much same thing. I don't see what else you can do in this hand (besides folding preflop); for him to even consider folding here on the river especially against you is ridiculous. That's not an insult I'm just saying you're much more aggressive than most of those guys and even they must realize you don't always have AK; but I think you have too much hand here to shut down immediatly on the flop, since a lot of these guys will coldcall here preflop with Axs. I'm not going to discuss individual players in this game publicly but I'll just say that someone who doesn't play a lot of hands (except when he's on tilt) does not equal good, in fact I'm stunned you would even say that about this person.