Bad play or bad beat?

Maurader1 · #1 03-23-2005, 05:27 AM

Should I have checked the river?
Comments on all streets definitely needed and welcome

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

yellowjack · #2 03-23-2005, 05:37 AM

Fold preflop.
Good 3-bet on the flop.
Good bet on the turn.
Good bet out on the river, you're unlucky that he caught it.

One might say that QJ is the only logical hand MP2 is calling down with from the flop, but we don't know what type of player MP2 is. Anyways we know that button is calling us down anyways, so we need to bet.

MP2 only made a mistake by open-limping preflop, the rest of the streets were played fine. It's not a bad beat because he had the pot equity from the flop to call it down.

He did have QJ, right? 99 is definitely a bad beat while K9 is getting stupid and lucky.

Dave G. · #3 03-23-2005, 05:41 AM

The only thing that looks suspect to me is the preflop call. K6s isn't a great hand to play against a raise even from the BB (knowing something about buttons raising standards could help this decision, though). I don't think there are enough people in the pot to make me want to play this one.

Other than that you played it well. Definitely bet the river, worse hands will call you.

Maurader1 · #4 03-23-2005, 05:45 AM

Indeed, QJ...but I'm not sure why his call on the turn was correct?

ArturiusX · #5 03-23-2005, 05:47 AM

The preflop call isn't an automuck, however you do need a lot of cold callers in front of you, maybe 4-5, then I think its ok. You do not, and I'd fold it everytime.

yellowjack · #6 03-23-2005, 05:52 AM

There's 9.5 BB in the pot, and it's 1 BB to him to call and make his straight on the river. So if there's at least a 1 in 9.5 chance of winning the pot, he should call. This is about 10.5%

His chance of making the straight on the river is 8 (outs) divided by 46 (cards left in deck) = 17.4%

So he is getting good odds for his straight. Had the pot been smaller, he might not be getting the correct odds but he has. At the same time, you don't want to keep the pot small because you have the best hand. You both played your cards and you got the short end of the stick.

I'm sure there are different conventions of writing odds used on this forum that are more common, but if you understand this then it's ok.

Abelardo · #7 03-23-2005, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that looks suspect to me is the preflop call. K6s isn't a great hand to play against a raise even from the BB (knowing something about buttons raising standards could help this decision, though). I don't think there are enough people in the pot to make me want to play this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many people you need to have to play against a rise on the BB with suited crap? I'm thinking I might call if there were about 4 other players coming along. And with wich hands do you call? K6s might not be a good hand but it looks like premium compared to say 93s. I ask because I often call in this spot, and if it's a leak I would like to fix it.

Abelardo

ArturiusX · #8 03-23-2005, 06:28 AM

I'd say 4 others minimum, in good circumstances.

The trouble is when you just hit top pair and your out of position. Tough decisions that I hate to make.

Dave G. · #9 03-23-2005, 06:30 AM

Ergh, long day. I thought there were 3 people in the pot. 5 is better, but I'm still not sure I'd play this. As I said, knowing about buttons raising standards might make me play this.

I guess an argument could be made for playing just for the flush potential. The size of the field is good for a flush draw, but destroys us if we only make one pair, for example. I'd tend to save my money on this one unless I thought he was a loose raiser. (If he raises with 93s, by all means...)

Hands I'd call with here are any suited cards 10 or higher, any pocket pair, AQo, AJo, KQo, and suited aces down to A8s. I'm reraising AKs, AQs, AKo, and AA - TT. As for fixing leaks, don't rely on me for that, I'm not very good. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

istewart · #10 03-23-2005, 06:33 AM

Is preflop really an automuck? Button could be raising a lot of things here.