AK in the BB, 20/40 hand on paradise

James282 · #1 10-06-2003, 02:10 AM

We're currently playing with 6 people, and I am dealt AhKh in the big blind. LAG raises UTG+1, and we know that he has so far raised pocket 5s, A9, KK, and KQs from what showdowns we've seen in the last 30 minutes or so from early position. A tough, thinking, and very aggressive player directly to his left reraises. It's folded to me and I cold-call, believing that this other player has noticed the same things that I have and wants to isolate UTG, and UTG calls. 3 to a flop of:

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Not the worst possible board for me. I check, UTG checks, button bets, I raise, UTG calls, button raises, I call, UTG mysteriously folds. Turn brings a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I think for a moment, bet out, and the button calls(a very good sign). River comes the 3rd jack. I check, and button bets. I call it down.

My basic thinking was that there is no way this guy had a jack or a nine in his hand, unless he had exactly 99. He would not reraise with A9 or less. If he had the jack I am positive he would have checked the flop behind him with a rainbow board, and his slowing down on the turn made me believe he had AQ, AK, or a crying AT or lower pocket pair. The reason I chose not to bet out on the river is that I did not believe I could make a pair smaller than the 9 fold, but that I could make him fold AQ or AT. I knew that this opponent would never fold AK here, so I felt that check-call was best. What do people think the results were? Did I over-play AK here? How else would people have played this?

Franchise (TTT) · #2 10-06-2003, 02:37 AM

It seems you're putting in a lot of bets against someone you're either way behind, or chopping with. Having seen the flop, I don't recommend you put in 3 small bets on the flop, and 2 more big bets to see the river. He has position and a 3-betting hand.

Fold preflop, or make it 4-bets if for some reason you believe this "tough, thinking, and very aggressive" player is going to be 3-betting light. I think it's an easy fold though.

Ed Miller · #3 10-06-2003, 06:00 AM

I think this is a perfect spot to 4-bet preflop. You have caught someone possibly with their pants down making an isolation play. You would like your opponent to assume he is up against KK or AA and possibly make a bad fold after the flop.

eugeneel · #4 10-06-2003, 06:25 AM

completely missplayed I think, the one who isolated has a very good chance of having pp.

James282 · #5 10-06-2003, 06:54 AM

He turned over AcQc and I took it down, but I felt like I was being too results-oriented after I won. I believe I missplayed it here too. I do like the suggestions to make it 4 bets before the flop, however.

In this particular case, I smelled weakness and tried to play on that. I might bet the river if I did it again, or fold to a 3-bet on the flop. I also tried to play this with other hands in mind. This player had made people fold several times already, and didn't want to have a table image problem later in the night...and thought that a chop was the most likely outcome anyway.

Long story short, he smelled weakness in me and played accordingly, and in this circumstance I made the right play. If this were the only hand I ever played, I would play it much differently. I would likely fold this on the turn against two opponents regardless of the circumstances, and if the same hand came up a rotation later, I would have folded it on the flop. If this is a generally -EV play, which I believe it is since, in retrospect, my read was fairly thin, is this a correct instance to make a stand against being a "folder"? I believe being a folder in short-handed poker will hurt you very badly.

-James

ML4L · #6 10-06-2003, 09:28 AM

Hey James,

Preflop: I like calling the 3-bet and going for a flop check-raise rather than capping and trying to lead with your hand out of position.

Flop: I would 4-bet the flop if you intend to see this hand through. I think that it GREATLY increases the probability of your getting a hand such as TT or 88 to fold.

Turn: Good bet; I think that you can safely fold to a raise, and if you have him dominated, he is not getting the proper odds when he calls. Out of curiosity, what cards could have fallen that would make you inclined to check (or check-raise) here?

River: I will almost always check-call in this spot to induce a bluff. If you bet, he will rarely call with hands that you beat, yet if you check, he will almost certainly bet any hand that can't beat yours.

All in all, I think that the hand was extremely well played...

ML4L

James282 · #7 10-06-2003, 09:57 AM

Hey ML4L, on the turn I would have check-folded if a Queen or a 10 fell, and check-raised a king, an ace, or a non-queen heart. At this point, I believed that I had about a 30% chance of being ahead, a 20% chance of chopping, and a 50% chance of being behind to a smaller pocket pair, with 6 reasonable outs. With 8.75 BB in the pot and my read at this point, and the table image issues I previously mentioned, I believed that the rougly 5 to 1 odds I would get of putting in 2 BB for 10.75 possible BB, calling down on the turn and river would be enough to pay off in the long run.

When I say this hand was "missplayed", I believe that it would be if this were a regular ABC opponent, or one that I had not played with. Since I know this player's style, I knew that his flop 3 bet on this board did not necessarily mean anything, and that his turn-call meant that he, at the very least, did not have a 9, jack, or higher PP. I also thought it fairly unlikely for him to preflop raise with a lesser PP, but that he may have done so to try and isolate the crappy player in UTG.

I also like the cold-call, check raise the reraiser with a board that I believe to be unthreatening. I think that this shows more strength than 4-betting preflop, since many players go by the mantra "fold or raise". I wanted my cold call, check-raise to show that I could beat a lesser PP or AK etc.

As far as the table image issue goes, I did not try to make anymore "moves" for the next hour and a half on this table, and even if I would have lost this hand, I wound up taking a 18 BB pot from this opponent and the same UTG player after I flopped them dead with Aces that turned into a set on an uncoordinated board(Tough player showed down QQ and believed that I was trying to outthink him again).
-James

Ed Miller · #8 10-06-2003, 10:20 AM

Preflop: I like calling the 3-bet and going for a flop check-raise rather than capping and trying to lead with your hand out of position.

People say stuff like this all the time, but do you really think a strong player (the 3-bettor) will be fooled by this ploy? When a tight player calls my 3-bet out of the blind, the first hand I put him on is AK... especially if I don't have AK.

I feel strongly that you should be capping preflop here. If you don't cap, when you miss, you have to play these silly games after the flop where you don't know where you stand. If you cap, you a) get money in with likely the best hand, and b) scare the bejeezus out of the guy that just 3-bet with a substandard hand. You cap preflop from the blind, the flop comes three rags, you bet, and mister strong-playing 3-bettor with AQ just folds. End of game.