turning a flush where a boat is likely... do you play it the same?

Adam22 · #1 11-07-2005, 10:37 PM

pretty average stats on both villians.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (16.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Adam22 · #2 11-07-2005, 10:42 PM

and as long as we're here, did i let go of this too soon?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero folds.

River: (8.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

paperboyNC · #3 11-07-2005, 10:43 PM

I don't cap the turn. Hate the river, but you have to call. Interesting that MP1 only calls UTG+1's initial turn bet. Was he worried that raising would chase you two out?

brettbrettr · #4 11-07-2005, 10:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and as long as we're here, did i let go of this too soon?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero folds.

River: (8.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Call the turn. The spot not to overcall is the river, and that's still pretty close I think.

Adam22 · #5 11-07-2005, 10:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't cap the turn. Hate the river, but you have to call. Interesting that MP1 only calls UTG+1's initial turn bet. Was he worried that raising would chase you two out?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI: the turn capper had 33, UTG+1 had A9o

Nick C · #6 11-08-2005, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
pretty average stats on both villians.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (16.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

MP1's call/3-bet is really scary. I wouldn't cap the turn.

You're really kind of hoping MP1 picked up bad time to spring to life with his flopped straight (not too likely, since, among other things, he would have needed to limp 54s), he has a lower flush, or he just called on the flop with an ace and loves his trips.

If there were a decent chance you were ahead (especially versus a lower flush), I think you'd not only want to cap but it would be important to, just in case there's some chance that UTG+1 will fold a hand with decent outs against you (unlikely, but you never know -- he could've been trying to steal with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], for instance, or maybe he'll now dump a pocket pair).

I don't think your chances of being ahead are very good, though. That call/3-bet is really scary, and not that many worse flushes are available. 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is about it, and lots of players would dump that preflop. (Also, MP1 really should be protecting a lower flush, not trying to trap with it.)