JJ - Completely misplayed, please comment and help me learn

Hi All,

First of all, thank you all for the mostly constructive feedback and intelligent posts. Hopefully through feedback, studying and dedication, I won't make mistakes like the one below. Please comment and <font color="red">be as harsh as needed</font>.


This is right before the bubble in a very loose tournament, many LAGs that have been calling all ins with Q7, etc. Still quite a ways from the money.


Hold'em NL (150/300) Seat 10 is the button.

Seat 1: Spig (8430 in chips)
Seat 2: Elmer53 (3210 in chips)
Seat 3: __gimp__ (13365 in chips)
Seat 4: akira3 (7402.50 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (6345 in chips)
Seat 6: Bornfree8 (4315 in chips)
Seat 7: CaRdSsUcK (3290 in chips)
Seat 8: Mcgrock (2870 in chips)
Seat 9: Brothers sits out
Seat 10: Fleecer12 (3220 in chips)
Spig: posts small blind 150
Elmer53: posts big blind 300
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to HERO [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
__gimp__: folds
akira3: folds
HERO: <font color="red"> raisesto 1200</font>
Bornfree8: folds
CaRdSsUcK: folds
Mcgrock: folds
Brothers: folds
Brothers sits back
Fleecer12: folds
Spig: <font color="red">calls 1050 </font>
Elmer53: folds
----- FLOP ----- [6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

<font color="blue"> POT: 2850 </font>

Spig: checks
HERO: <font color="red">bets 5145 and is all-in</font>
Spig: <font color="green">calls 5145</font>
----- TURN ----- [6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]][7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
----- RIVER ----- [6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]][Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Hero: shows [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] (A Pair of Jacks, Queen high)
Spig: shows [Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] (Three of a kind, Queens, Seven high)
Spig collected 12990 from Main pot

--------------------------------------------------------
So I think preflop was played correctly. The player that called has been calling 4 BB raises with hands such as AT, KQ, etc. His cold call on the flop should have alerted me to another big pair, but not AA KK.

Flop:
This is where I screwed up. I wanted to bet the pot, but the pot was about half my remaining stack. What size should the continuation bet be? I bet all in to chase out no paired overs, but I obviously didn't have the right read.

Comments? Other ways to play this hand?

Thanks again as always.

Regards,
Me

Preflop: Why a raise to 4xbb? Scared of a call?

Postflop: I don't like the push. I would lead out for 3/4 or 2,5/4 of the pot here and if he called, then you must go with your read that he has a pair in his hand and trust that feeling. I would check the turn and probably fold. Gotta go with your instinct.

So I would play it like:
Bet bbx3 preflop, CB of 3/4 of the pot, check turn (if i put him on a higher pair)

over betting the flop was not needed. a bet of about half the pot would have been sufficient to chase out draws. JJ is a good hand with that flop. this is very read dependent, but if he raises your bets, you can reevaluate how strong your jacks are. that said, i think i'd go broke here too. tough luck.

EDIT: his cold call of 4x BB raise should have told you to be more cautious.

[MLG]

If he had folded the flop would you have posted this hand?
If he had called the flop and flipped over 1010 would you have posted this hand?

Just because you lose a hand doesnt mean you played it wrong. There are other ways to play it, for example if you make it 900 preflop you can make a 3/4 pot continuation bet on the flop and leave yourself some stack behind. The way you played it though is obviously fine.

Here's the thing, if you think you play a hand badly just because you lose, or you think you play a hand well just because you win, you are missing the point, and wont ever make measurable improvements.


Oh, and don't post results in the post.

Very good. Thanks for the feedback, as usualy. I agree with the 3 BB and the size of the continuation bet. It would have allowed me to get more information.

Also thanks about the post guidelines [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And to answer your question - no, I wouldn't have posted this if he folded, and I wouldn't have posted it if he had TT. I did post it to see if my line of play could be improved, and I got the info that I needed.

Thanks a lot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
And to answer your question - no, I wouldn't have posted this if he folded, and I wouldn't have posted it if he had TT. I did post it to see if my line of play could be improved, and I got the info that I needed.



[/ QUOTE ]

You're welcome, but you still dont get it. The only reason you wanted to know if your line could be improved is because you happened to lose the hand. If you had questions about how good the line was, those questions should still apply if he had 1010. If you cant figure that out, you aren't going to see any measurable improvement in your game.

What I meant was I would have thought 'hmm, how could I get more money out of this next time' or 'how could I play this better,' had the outcome been different - but I am not sure that I would have posted it. I didn't intend any sort of 'beat' post, and I promise, I do think about the game and improvements, regardless of the results.

That was one long run on sentence. Alright - Thanks for the feedback, again.