HPFAP loose game [bad] advice

papawawa · #1 07-26-2004, 04:05 PM

Yesterday I was reading HPFAP (again), and one passage stuck out in my mind. In the loose games section, Sklansky says you SHOULDN'T raise with AK preflop (in many, but not all situations). The reason they gave was that if someone's going to suck out on you on the river, they're going to do it whether you raise preflop or not. They maintain that many loose players will call the preflop raise with anything, so why not save your bets and up your odds by keeping as many players in as possible. Seems logical, right? Well I applied this so-called wisdom one hand, and I flopped my king. However, the six paired on the river and I lost to a 65o. Insanity! I am definetly raising w/AK in every loose game I encounter.

phixxx · #2 07-26-2004, 04:09 PM

I don't remember this part in the book ;o I guess I'll read it again.

Sponger15SB · #3 07-26-2004, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday I was reading HPFAP (again), and one passage stuck out in my mind. In the loose games section, Sklansky says you SHOULDN'T raise with AK preflop (in many, but not all situations). The reason they gave was that if someone's going to suck out on you on the river, they're going to do it whether you raise preflop or not. They maintain that many loose players will call the preflop raise with anything, so why not save your bets and up your odds by keeping as many players in as possible. Seems logical, right? Well I applied this so-called wisdom one hand, and I flopped my king. However, the six paired on the river and I lost to a 65o. Insanity! I am definetly raising w/AK in every loose game I encounter.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i disagree with slansky on not raising with AK, but i don't know what you are thinking, you make this decision on ONE HAND WITH AK, as opposed to hundreds and hundreds.

bernie · #4 07-26-2004, 04:29 PM

John Feeny was in a thread that looked at this situation very closely. It was very interesting.

You do realize, there is a possibility that you made more off the 65o postflop with him chasing than if you had raised preflop, he calls, then chases all the way?

Sure, he could've folded his 65o and saved you. But this is somewhat the same mentality of players not liking lots of callers when they raise with AA preflop. Meaning they want 'fewer' players to see the flop with their AA than more. When it's actually a close trade-off.

Also, it's only one hand. If he missed his card on the river, I'm sure this would be a totally different post. Probably praising the move, yet still misunderstanding it.

b

djack · #5 07-26-2004, 04:32 PM

HEPFAP also suggests that if you're in the cutoff with AQo in a loose game that you call and not raise.

bernie · #6 07-26-2004, 07:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
HEPFAP also suggests that if you're in the cutoff with AQo in a loose game that you call and not raise

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No matter what? Hmm...I think there's a little more to it than that.

b

onegymrat · #7 07-26-2004, 08:01 PM

I think what Sklansky is implying is that in super loose games, where AQo will NOT knock out any opponents preflop, it is best to limp in rather than raise. AQo does not play as well with so many opponents and you would have to nail that hand to continue.

MicroBob · #8 07-26-2004, 09:25 PM

they have since stated that these rules apply for games where the players are merely loose (but still good).
somewhere it has been stated that these ideas do not apply for games where the players are loose AND play badly after the flop.

i think this is difficult to tell based on what is written in the section...although i don't have it immediately in front of me.

obviously SSHE has ideas that are more relevant to games that are loose WITH bad play post-flop.

pokerjo22 · #9 07-26-2004, 09:42 PM

I would have thought that with a lot of players loosing, and a lot limping in, AQo would have been a raise for value from CO, no? From the CO its not about knocking people out?

CORed · #10 07-27-2004, 01:14 PM

Although I think HPFAP is a "must read" for any serious holdem player, I don't really think th "loose games" section is very good. I don't want to keep the pot small in these games. If I have a good hand and the other players are playing garbage, I want to raise for value. If they want to play their 65o against my AK, I watn them to pay 2 SB to see the flop. They will call postflop wheter they have to pot odds or not. Nearly all of the money that gives them the correct odds to chase is coming from the other fish, not from me.