AK with bitter sweet flop

Transference · #1 07-14-2004, 02:47 AM

I thought I played this a bit oddly.

MP1 seems to come alive with odd hands, hes not quite LAG but is a bit unpredictable. BB is fairly conservative, havnt seen much aggression from him but I do not have a strong read.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, Button folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

this c/r seems pretty suspicious, I'm putting mp1 on a weaker ace but am feeling less and less confident about my hand. I am definately wanting to improve on the river but I have to 3 bet this.

River: (24.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

given the preceeding action, BB coming alive here concerns me. I suspect BB was playing passively and is probably prepared to 3 bet here without the flush possibility

Final Pot: 28.25 BB
Main Pot: 28.25 BB, between BB, UTG, MP1 and Hero.

I feel pretty good about the turn 3 bet and river call, but am guessing many would raise this river. I am curious to hear what hands everyone might put the other players on. Will post results upon request.

TrailofTears · #2 07-14-2004, 03:23 AM

Ok, here is my read on this one. (15 min. and a lot of deleting later) I agree with you and would make a side bet that MP1 has Ax. I have two theories as to what is going on with BB. My thoughts are that he caught a piece of the flop (maybe QJ) and bet it out to get rid of the stragglers and tight flush draws out there, or in hopes of taking right there. It is an intimidating board (clearly, since you are scared and you have TPTK) and he might have thought he had or could act as having the best hand. Your raise (very bad or very good for him...I'll explain in a minute) stopped him from betting outright, but his piece of the flop would keep him on board. He was a calling station for the next round, possibly because he thought HHING. The river bet boggles me. That is scenario one.

Scenario two is worse news for you. He flopped the nut straight and made his initial bet to get rid of the tight flush draws at the table. When you raised, he knew you hit something solid and slowed his betting when he knew you would take care of that for him (a sort of slowplay I guess) - I know this is not smart and might be a stretch given the flush possibility and always-present FH possibility. He followed and called every bet on the turn, of which there were plenty to satiate him, and then came right out on the river when the flush no longer scared him (though you'd think the boat might - IDK.)

Anyways, I think the hand comes down to you and BB. I don't see any boats being out there because no one else raised PF or on the flop. UTG was waiting on a draw that never came, but was pot committed, or maybe had a pair keeping the draw company. MP1 is dominated by you. That is how I see it. You are either getting paid off bigtime or BB is. Any feedback on my read is more than welcome, of course.

young nut · #3 07-14-2004, 06:54 AM

I would put BB on either Ax or K J. From my experience at the .5/1 PP tables, most people that play there will overplay their aces with horrible kickers. Its possible that he may have hit 2 pair on the flop ( A-10 or A-Q ) but this seems unlikely as he just called your raise. I would say 60% of the time this BB person is betting with Ax.

KJ is the other possibility. He may have only called the flop raise so he could get more value out of a turn check raise since he flopped the nut straight.

Please post the results, I'm really interested to find out what BB has [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

spamuell · #4 07-14-2004, 07:23 AM

I don't like the turn 3-bet. I don't see why you put MP1 on a weaker ace and I think that it's very likely you are against a made straight and want to keep people in so you are getting value on your 10 out draw rather than forcing them out by making them call two cold.

Sent · #5 07-14-2004, 08:25 AM

Someone has KJ, probably the BB going along for the ride and calling 2 cold PF.

-Sent

cjromero · #6 07-14-2004, 09:17 AM

I think it is more likely that BB has a weak ace than KJ. Many Party micro players would slowplay a flopped straight, rather than coming out and betting it. For that reason, I like the turn 3-bet. If he had a straight, wouldn't he cap on the turn?

TrailofTears · #7 07-14-2004, 01:21 PM

Results? I am dying to see how these reads went, and where I (inevitably) misread and why. -- Trail

Transference · #8 07-14-2004, 04:34 PM

Great posts, very nice analyis Trail, I hope I didn't give you too much of a splitting headache on this one. All around its a pretty interesting hand and one ill think more about.

The nightmare scenario was dead on, and I was right to feel a bit funny about the turn 3 bet, I think it may have been mistake but not a major one, I also think it may have saved me from a c/r on the river. I'd like to hear more about that 3 bet.

Here are the long awaited results:

Final Pot: 28.25 BB
Main Pot: 28.25 BB, between BB, UTG, MP1 and Hero. > Pot won by BB (28.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Jh Kd (straight, ace high).
UTG shows Jd Js (two pair, aces and jacks).
MP1 shows Ad 4s (three of a kind, aces).
Hero shows As Kh (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 28.25 BB. 

Thanks to everyone who put some thought into this one.