Big blind, big draw, big pot. Big deal?

[Guy McSucker]

Posting from memory for various reasons of the broken-computer variety. I had a very nice drawing hand here and couldn't decide when or if to get aggressive with it. I think I got most decisions wrong here. Help!

Party $5/10 6-max. I am in the big blind with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Three limp in and the SB inexplicably folds. I do the decent thing.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Should I bet out with the nut flush draw into three players?

Anyway I check. UTG bets and both others call.

Should I raise for value? Under normal circumstances everyone calls the raise and it's clearly profitable, but I hate check-raising then checking the turn. Should I get over this fear?

I just called.

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] giving me a gutshot which is also likely to be a winner.

I check, UTG bets, the others call.

I have 12 outs so my hand will come in over 25% of the time, just. Again I have a value check-raise if everyone calls, but it's thin. Should I go for it?

I didn't.

River brings my gutshot 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Bet out or check-raise?

Here I once again lost my nerve, thinking that just everyone would see the four to a straight on board and check it through, so I bet out, two people folded, last guy raised, I 3-bet, he called and his trip aces deservedly lost.

All comments appreciated,

Guy.

[naphand]

We think alike on this. My thinking has taken the following direction:

Where you have at least 2 players against you on the flop every $ that goes in is for value, so in passive games I will bet out from EP as if it gets checked through my drawing odds are thin on the Turn esp. as often 1 bet will get it HU and I wont be able to call. Bet the flop for value here, and ensure you have sufficient pot to make the Turn call easily +EV if you miss. I will bet the Turn again HU unless I read opponent has something and wont fold (quite a lot of the time).

In a slightly more aggressive game (i.e. one where Button will bet a lot, or people will bet draws or overcards etc.) and a decent board you should be looking to CR the flop, as usually you don't get the chance to 3-bet. Chooks are either too scared to raise their TP weak kicker or want to slow-play TPTK or 2-pair and raise the Turn.

With more aggro players I bet out hoping to 3-bet, depending on where the aggressor is positioned to me. I do not want to present 2 bets to calling stations who will always call 1 bet with almost any two cards, but fold for 2.

As you give no reads and no description of the game you are in, how do you expect to get a meaningful recommendation?

Assuming your $5/$10 games is typical, you should definitely raise UTG's bet for value here. A lot of these chooks will call 2 cold once they have put in one bet. Not raising here is a large mistake. Get over the checking-the-Turn fear, UTG is almost certainly not folding before SD when he calls/raises your flop raise so you are not going to win this uncontested. You can easily call the Turn when he bets into you again, and besides you can uses this play to advantage when you have a great hand later and CR the field on the Turn as well (with the right board).

Turn raise is pretty thin. 12 outs against 3 players, odds are 12:34; fractionally better than 25% but you don't want UTG to raise and knock anyone else out, so calling is preferable IMO. I think we have discussed this before and 12/13 is the borderline for most to raise here, though all your outs are to the nuts. Bet the River, for the reasons you give, you must get value here and often these scary boards will be checked through, plus you might get raised, which is always nice.

Flop bad, Turn OK, River good.