JJ on ultraLAG table

[Roy6]

This table was ultralaggy and just got recently 4-handed and more LAGGY.

An earlier interesting hand:
The player who's Button in the JJ hand donked both flop and turn in the BB when it was capped preflop and the flop came low.
He had ATs, the original raiser raised the turn with AQo UI, and the guy check-called him down. They split the pot with 2 pairs A-hi. I mucked my AQ on the turn. (I capped preflop). [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button calls, Hero folds.

[hemstock]

I'd fold when it's 2 back to me on the flop. You have a bdfd which is propably worth 1 out and your 2 jacks. Even if they are both maniacs (which I dont think this is the case here) at least one of them can beat a pair of jacks. They see the Queen on the board and they don't care. How often both of these players will bet and 3-bet a flush draw?

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold when it's 2 back to me on the flop. You have a bdfd which is propably worth 1 out and your 2 jacks. Even if they are both maniacs (which I dont think this is the case here) at least one of them can beat a pair of jacks. They see the Queen on the board and they don't care. How often both of these players will bet and 3-bet a flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. We'll often have one of them beat, but I don't think one of them is on a flush draw and the other one has a worse hand often enough. We're going to have to spend alot more to see if our hand is good anyway. If we're calling this cold on the flop I think we have to call the turn and river for 1 bet if safe cards fall (unless the flop gets capped).

Have you seen whether UTG would raise PF and this flop with nothing? What about something like A3 or a lower pocket pair.

Your reads don't seem to apply here--you said they were donking raggedy boards with A-high. This flop is semi-coordinated, and not to give a lag credit, but he could have hit this flop. I'm torn between calling 2 more bets on the flop, or folding. You have called 3 small bets to see a turn, which kind of sucks. Anyhow, it looks like this may not get to showdown unless button makes his draw.

[ArturiusX]

I fold with 2 back to me on the flop, unless UTG is very wild.

[Roy6]

I agree that it sucks to pay 4 SBs on the flop just to fold a non-threataning turn.

I think UTG is wild enough not to stop with TT or 99 here, so he raises. (I don't know if he is dumb enough to push AK.) Button can easily 3-bet a flush draw or something worse here just to bully me out.
However, this is quite a parlay.
When I call the cap I play for set value.

[B Dids]

What about the turn changed how you felt about your hand?

If you're going to call the flop, you need to see showdown, but mostly you need not to call the flop.

Foldy Fold Foldfold.