2 hands: AA and AK

#1 10-19-2005, 02:53 AM

No reads yet, just sat at this table, not even PT data.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

First of all, am I playing these too passively post flop, and was the 3-bet on the flop correct?

And on the next hand:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls $0.25 (All-In), MP2 raises, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

What about this flop 3 bet? Should I be check/calling the turn and river, or check/folding even?

Comments on all streets welcome of course.

Thanks,
Steve

numeri · #2 10-19-2005, 02:58 AM

Wow... you are having some serious passive thoughts, bud. You need to bet the turn on hand 1. If raised, I call and check/call the river. Hand 2 is fine. Why are you even considering check/calling or check/folding? That's just crazy talk.

#3 10-19-2005, 03:02 AM

Heres another possible passive one on my part, same table:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

I'm worried about mostly JJ and KT here. Too worried?

J. Stew · #4 10-19-2005, 03:13 AM

The aces are good for a bet on the turn.

I think the AK is good.

J. Stew · #5 10-19-2005, 03:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Heres another possible passive one on my part, same table:

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

I'm worried about mostly JJ and KT here. Too worried?

[/ QUOTE ]

No this hand is different than the Aces hand because he's check raising on a coordinated board. I think you can still three-bet the flop and call a cap, but check/call down if he caps. What was he going for the triple check riz with? It's looks like he's getting too tricky like he doesn't know where he's at. I think a set would at least lead the river, but that's strange [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

#6 10-19-2005, 03:34 AM

On the first hand (AA) the pot is large on the flop. The raiser is most likley betting A jack. He might be trying to find out where is at. Or may be trying to knock out the BB, but that would not be the best reason to raise. The three bet was good. But, you should have bet the turn, or at a minimum check raised the turn in an effort to protect your hand. When you check call, you might minimize your losses when beaten, but at the same time don't get maximum value for you hand. When the pot gets this big, you need to get the attitude that you are ready to rock and roll when you have a big hand. It is possible that he might have a set, but the hands that give you most of your profits are hands that you don't have the nuts with. Its a game of value betting. Also, by leading out or check-raising the turn, you can an idea of where you are at. If he three bets it increases the probability of him have a set. Without any reads on how loose or agressive he is, that is the most you can do. IF he is a rock, There may be some way to justify you play, but still you should lead out on the turn.

The second hand was fine, by betting the turn after he capped the flop, you get to find out where you are at, get value from your hand, and protect it. IF he raises you, you a call might be in order, but not a fold. If he does raise you on the turn you will be facing a 13 to 1 on your call, you chance of winning the hand is much greater than that. He most likly had a king with a weaker kicker and is calling down in the hopes that he has you beat. And if a he had you beat, that sucks, but you would have played the hand right. Don't even think about folding solid hands (especially top pair, top kicker) in big pots in the fear that you might be beat. In this situation you would need to be right 99% of the time to make a good fold here.

ON the third hand he might have the set, but that is always a possability. If you are always worrying about that, you will become the tight-passive player that does not win as much as you could. Given that he called and not raised he most likly does not have JJ or QQ. The KTs is a concern, but that would just be an infortuate flop for you, and it does happen a lot. There is a greater possability that he is betting AKo cause of the straight possibility, AJs or AJo and is trying to protect his hand. Given your raise it would be hard for him to put you on KT. Another plausibly holding might be OJs or OJo which would give him an infeiror two pair. My play on the turn here is to make it 3 bets, and if he caps you can check call the river. A hidden benifit to playing like this is that you the other players that you don't need the nuts to 3-bet the flop or turn. Later on, people might give you more action on your legitimate hands.

To illustrate, I had played at a table for about an hour and been 3 betting and capping my top pairs and weak two pair, and when I hit quad 5, two players helped me cap a river against them, when one had Both had the same top pair to match the 5's on board and nither had either of the top two kickers\. and the other.

go to Microlimit FAQ's, scroll to the bottom go to the links to Ed Millers crushing and biggest links post. After reading that your perception of these hands might change. I know that reading these increased my winnings immensely.

Sorry, there are a lot of typos in this.... I wrote in on the fly.

#7 10-19-2005, 03:36 AM

Hand 1.
Bet the turn.
Bet the river.
played like you did, I'd c/r the turn.

Hand 2.

I wouldn't bet that turn. villian really likes his hand.

Hand 3.

You need to 3-bet that flop. Hand will play differently from here on.

#8 10-19-2005, 03:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He most likly had a king with a weaker kicker and is calling down in the hopes that he has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often does villian cap with top pair weak kicker? He holds a two pair or better.

#9 10-19-2005, 03:57 AM

Most likley was an overstatement. I agree, but two pair or better is as likly as you expect. Without a read on the guy you cannot know for sure if he was playing 78s or may be K7s. To me KQ is more likley or maybe even KJ. When the hero bet out on the turn, he only called, unless he was weak and beleived hero had three kings, he would have raised. IF I got raised on the turn I would call down because of pot size. But in the chance that the our king is good, I want to maximize my value. The large pot compensates for the bet I lose when beaten from betting out the turn. If I do have him beat I win two extra bets, and when raised lose one bet on top of the calls I would have made.

The other reason I make this play is because he might check the turn and call the river, and I gain a two bets less than if I I had hit my hand.

And another thing, the most likly two pair had is 78, so if villian does have that, I have 8 outs to win catch a better two pair on the turn. By betting and seeing him call, I can be confident that he does not have a set.

2+2 wannabe · #10 10-19-2005, 04:25 AM

hand 1 bet turn and river
hand 2 is good - I'm really wanting to check-raise this turn though
hand 3 I definitely check-raise the turn