First post w/ question

TexTiger · #1 03-10-2005, 02:54 AM

I've been reading the posts for a while, and after a questionable play, I thought I would make a post to see if in y'all's opinion I did the right thing.

First off, Villian is pretty loose, calls with a wide range of hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t5830)
UTG+1 (t6330)
MP1 (t6185)
MP2 (t5135)
MP3 (t9455)
Hero (t8855)
Button (t11975)
SB (t13650)
BB: Villian (t9015)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t800, 2 folds, BB Villian/ calls t600.

Flop: (t1700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets t800, Hero raises to t1600, Villian raises to t8215, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t11515

The CO raise didn't seem like a bad play, and with the range of hands Villian has played so far, was not pushing the right move? Should I have pushed after the flop instead of reraising? I put him either on Q8 or Q4, as those are the type hands he was playing all night. Also, the all-in call was out of character for him as most re-raises he would fold.

Thanks, and I really enjoy the forums.

TT

Terrabon98 · #2 03-10-2005, 03:00 AM

hey welcome to the forums. The play looks good to me, I like the preflop raise,especially with everyone in front folding. Postflop I would play it the same way. Likely he hit a set or two pair and chose to fast play it. I can't imagine you being ahead too many times, so let him have it and wait for another pot.

Msogard · #3 03-10-2005, 03:56 AM

Nice fold. I might've raised his flop bet to like 2,400 and folded to a re-raise. Even then you have almost 30xBB. I think it was pretty well played though.

AtticusFinch · #4 03-10-2005, 04:02 AM

First off, welcome to the board.

As for the hand, the PF raise looks good to me. On the flop, you're min-raising 800 into a 2500-chip pot. If you want to take the pot down, you need to raise more.

In this case, though, I think you're beat and you got lucky by losing less than you could have. Then again, he may have just sensed weakness from the minraise and pushed to try and blow you out. You'll never know for sure, now -- thus the issue.

I think a bigger raise on the flop is warranted -- at least half the pot including villain's bet. You could also make a case for smooth-calling and seeing what he does on the turn.

But a min-raise is no good. Think of it this way: What are you trying to accomplish? Taking down the pot now? Finding out where you're at?

What if he had just called? What information would that give you? Almost none. You can't honestly expect him to fold anything to a minraise when you're giving him almost 4.5 to 1 odds to call, and he might (and probably should) just call with a monster as well, trying to pull you in.

Your hand just isn't good enough to try to sweeten the pot without gaining some information about where you are as well. So either call, or raise enough to make overs, qx, A8, or A4 fold.

CardSharpCook · #5 03-10-2005, 05:19 AM

I can't believe you laid this down. You've got a loose player who's just called for 4x the BB. I don't care how loose he is, Q8, Q4 does not call here. Now, AQ is a possibility, I'll grant you that, but the way you played this hand....

First, tone down your PF raise. I've always liked 2.5X the BB. More than that, you either encourage raises or discourage callers too much. Such a bet affects different people differently, but many will sense weakness from a bet like that. Me, I probably put you on 77 PF, which is good for you. Now, does he have a Q, an 8, or a 4? Probably. I don't think this is a stone cold bluff. But....

You've got Top pair second best kicker... you can't walk away from this here. What hands are you waiting for? Trips? Two-pair? what is good enough to stand up to a bettor? I really don't like this hand, but I'm calling here. I think he is making a play with his paired 8. I think he thinks it is good, but doesn't want you drawing. I call.

Also, if he had a hand better than TP, is this how he would play it? Now THAT doesn't make sense to me. He checks to you, gets you to bet, maybe he calls and lets you bet the turn as well, maybe he raises, BUT HE DOESN'T TRY TO BET YOU OUT OF THE POT!!!! Why would he fast play TPTK or trips, or this Q8 you think he has? It just doesn't make sense. This smacks of JQ, QT, A8, 78, or a variety of hands that ARE NOT Q8, Q4, or AQ.

CSC

zaxx19 · #6 03-10-2005, 05:30 AM

I can't believe you laid this down...

Ya..I mean you almost have TPTK, how can yu lay this lol lol lol lol...

Why would you "fast play TPTK"

Ya you should slow play a monster like one pair every time.

You've got Top pair second best kicker... you can't walk away from this here. What hands are you waiting for? Trips? Two-pair?

Personally to put all my money in against a solid opponent yes id like to have at least tptk when I have a good amount of chips...is that abnormal?

ZBTHorton · #7 03-10-2005, 05:34 AM

I totally think this is an auto-call.

AS CSC said, if you aren't calling this hand, what flop were you looking for exactly?

zaxx19 · #8 03-10-2005, 06:31 AM

...One in which an opponent doesnt push after Ivce show decent strength and hold only TPGK......

Can any of you guys get away from TPGK in tournies, im not trying to be sarcastic Im seriously asking?

All that being said the flop push seems a little suspicious but id never call this an "auto-push" thats just ridiculous.

CardSharpCook · #9 03-10-2005, 06:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Can any of you guys get away from TPGK in tournies, im not trying to be sarcastic Im seriously asking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I once had AA with four tables left in the Party 250K. I doubled the blinds, hoping for a caller. Both the SB and BB called. Flop comes K96,two hearts. I bet, one caller, the other folds (he later said he folded QQ). Turn is a Jh. Guy goes all in. We were 1 and 2 in chip count in the entire tourney. I was 2. I knew I was beaten, but I knew he didn't have the flush. I knew I should fold and I still had 3/4ths of the chips I started the hand with. I called, I lost. Pocket Jacks. At least I was right, he didn't have the flush. But, I screwed up the best chance at a huge score I've ever had. I called when I knew I should fold. No, I don't think I've ever gotten away from TPGK in a tourney. Except to something obvious, of course.

CSC

2005 · #10 03-10-2005, 07:26 AM

I get away from TPGK all the time, but most of the time it's not in an online tournament. I'm calling this all-in here with about 80% certainty that I have the best hand. If I'm wrong, oh well, next tourney.

Gavin