NL vs. Lim Concepts

[Brad22]

I have read about the following concepts in Limit books - but do any of these really ever apply (ie: are they as effective) in No Limit?

-Raising to get a free card
-Putting more money in when the odds justify it

Any examples of these from NL would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[winky51]

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-Raising to get a free card

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No.

Lets say the pot is $100 after bobo the fish bet %50 on the flop. Now you raise what? $75? (call $50 raise $25, he calls pot is $200)?

These have to happen/not happen:
A. He could reraise you on the flop messing up your odds.
B. If there is a check/check on the turn then the river produces your wonderous flush then you have to bet $100 into the pot to be even odds for your draw hit % and he has to call.

If you are raising in this situation you need a really strong hand like 2 overs and the flush draw.

Just by calling you get beter pot odds and he will be more likely to call a 3 flush because you might be bluffing.

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-Putting more money in when the odds justify it

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Sure. If there is $100 in the pot and you only need to call $25 for a good draw then of course it is. But sometimes this depends on your opponent and the read you have. You might have more outs than you think. Or if your opponent can fold you can even count outs to a draw you don't have in your hand.

EXAMPLE: Player X raises from the CO 1st in, you call on the BUTTON with a As4s.

Flop is Qh 4h 3s. Your opponent bets.

Lets say you were sure he had a mid pair like 77. Well you have 5 outs and a backdoor flush. He is not giving you odds to call due to the size of his bet. But wait, the board has one over and 2 hearts. Potentially you have 3 Qs and 9 hearts extra as outs for a total of 17. Now you have odds. If your opponent can fold to a scare card this might be a good place to call and try a bluff. Even if it fails you have 5 real outs to beat him. Danial N. pulled this on Freddy Deebs at the Tournament Masters on TV. I thought it was one of the best bluffs I ever saw. He player his hand thinking he had outs then played the board as it developed into a reasonable hand he COULD have that would smoke Deeb. Deed folded TP TK on the river to nothing.

[UATrewqaz]

The difference between limit and NL can be summed up in 1 sentence really


NL gives you the ability to control the pot odds with 100% authority*, limit does not.

*(assuming you have a decent sized stack relatively to the pot, obviously if you have less in front of you than the current pot you can't really control the odds anymore).

"Raising to get a free card"
Yes, often times you will encounter a player who likes to try to represent the flop, so, say the flop gives you four to a flush or straight, if you have position this can work. If he bluffs at it, you raise if you have a good draw. If he has a real good hand, you'll know, he'll probably reraise you. If he checks the turn and the turn completes your draw, bet it. If he called your raise on the flop because he thought HE was trapping YOU (with a set or overpair), this is were you'll bust him, he won't make you for the flush or straight, he'll go for the check-raise. So, yes, against the right opponents, either bluffers or guys with made hands that you can outdraw, it can work. If he checks the turn and the turn card didn't help you, you just check back, although, sometimes, if he was bluffing but called to see another card and you don't think the turn helped him, you can bet again and get the pot there having not made your hand.

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[ QUOTE ]
-Raising to get a free card

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

Lets say the pot is $100 after bobo the fish bet %50 on the flop. Now you raise what? $75? (call $50 raise $25, he calls pot is $200)?

These have to happen/not happen:
A. He could reraise you on the flop messing up your odds.
B. If there is a check/check on the turn then the river produces your wonderous flush then you have to bet $100 into the pot to be even odds for your draw hit % and he has to call.

If you are raising in this situation you need a really strong hand like 2 overs and the flush draw.

Just by calling you get beter pot odds and he will be more likely to call a 3 flush because you might be bluffing.


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This is not correct. I will let others elaborate.

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The difference between limit and NL can be summed up in 1 sentence really

NL gives you the ability to control the pot odds with 100% authority*, limit does not.

*(assuming you have a decent sized stack relatively to the pot, obviously if you have less in front of you than the current pot you can't really control the odds anymore).

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well, there are a few other differences. errors are pretty costly, so you need better reads on your opponents too.

odds are great (and i love them) but at some points in no-limit you just have to make a giant educated guess and go with it either way.

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[ QUOTE ]
-Raising to get a free card

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

Lets say the pot is $100 after bobo the fish bet %50 on the flop. Now you raise what? $75? (call $50 raise $25, he calls pot is $200)?

These have to happen/not happen:
A. He could reraise you on the flop messing up your odds.
B. If there is a check/check on the turn then the river produces your wonderous flush then you have to bet $100 into the pot to be even odds for your draw hit % and he has to call.

If you are raising in this situation you need a really strong hand like 2 overs and the flush draw.

Just by calling you get beter pot odds and he will be more likely to call a 3 flush because you might be bluffing.


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You obviously didn't read Sklansky's books [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Here are the main problems if you just call:

- there's a good chance you'll never see the river because your opponent will make a big bet on the turn giving you horrible odds.

- your opponent will put you on a draw so he will more easily lay his hand down if you hit.


There are lots of other reasons why a raise can be better than a call. Just read Theory of Poker.