Learning from calling stations

punter11235 · #1 06-19-2005, 05:21 PM

Hello all,

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($40.00)
Button ($286.50)
SB ($283.00)
BB ($195.50)
Hero ($349.50)
UTG+1 ($199.25)
MP1 ($433.25)
MP2 ($98.00)
MP3 ($213.00)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero calls $2, 3 folds, MP3 calls $2, 2 folds, SB (poster) raises to $11, 1 fold, Hero calls $9, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($26) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15.

Turn: ($56) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $20, Hero calls $20.

River: ($96) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $20, Hero calls $20.

Final Pot: $136

Results in white below: 
SB has Ks Js (one pair, fives).
Hero has 7s 7c (two pair, sevens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $136. 

I asked myself this question : which hand is better : 33 or AKs while playing 1on1 nolimit holdem. The answer is obvious, 33 is WAY better and not even close... but for some strange reason when ppl raise with this AK they think they are entitled to win the pot. They fire their continuation bet, then they fire their second bullet and then they bluff the river... I always played pp just for set equity, but why should I ? Majority of raises are AK, KQ AQ or similair crap hands, my 77 is a monster comparing to them [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. This hand is similair to my "inducing bluffs one before. I am experimenting with calling preflop raiser down with PP.
Thoughts ?

xorbie · #2 06-19-2005, 05:23 PM

Imagine if this guy didn't suck though.

punter11235 · #3 06-19-2005, 05:26 PM

Even some guys who dont suck fire two barrels with overcards.
But this is 200NL, most guys suck for that matter [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Best wishes!

TexArcher · #4 06-19-2005, 05:34 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to call 3 3 WAY better than A K heads up, you're only a slight favorite there.

And why play with fire on that hand by calling all the way down, why not just raise the flop and try to take it right there, why give him two more cards with 6 outs to bust you?

punter11235 · #5 06-19-2005, 05:39 PM

Imagine we are playing head to head. You get AKs and I get 22 every single time. If you dont get allin preflop you are going to lose money after the flop in 66% of cases (even sligthly more). AK is even money with pp but only assuming that AK can get allin before the flop.
In actual hand calling instead of raising is designed to induce future bluffs, this play is called : "rope-a-dope" just for reference. This can be good play or dumb play which calling stations make all the time, hence the title of the thread.

Best wishes!

sourbeaver · #6 06-19-2005, 05:42 PM

33 vs AK heads-up ...

33 vs AK all-in will be almost 50-50

33 vs AK one street at a time:

Sure, on a board of unders, you're clearly ahead. But do you realize that you should be wary of any Q,K or A on the flop with a decent raiser ? He could've hit any of those and you'll pay dearly to find out if he fires 3 times. If the flop is all rags, what will you do when any of those face cards comes after you've called a flop bet ? You'll try and guess if he has AK, AQ or even AJ that particular time ? The fact is, an overcards raiser will have a lot of "scare outs" to an underpair. And the underpair player better be damn certain what's going on before he calls half his stack to the river. And what if he plays TT-AA the same way ?

sourbeaver · #7 06-19-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And what if he plays TT-AA the same way ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking back at the HH you posted, TT-AA is delighted that he's getting paid by an underpair that didn't hit what it was supposed to, namely a set.

I'm not saying you're all wrong, I'm just saying you need a hell of a read on the raiser, and it's much closer that you think anyway, because of all those scare cards you have to dodge.

punter11235 · #8 06-19-2005, 05:46 PM

He plays AA-TT the same way but I play 2pairs and set the same way. Its all question who choose bluffing frequencies better. And I believe most players are bluffing way too often so calling down against random player may be profitable. Of course I use some reads and I dont call any player around, just pick my victims [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PokerFink · #9 06-19-2005, 05:47 PM

This works well against bad players.

This is horrendous against even moderately good players.