In The Middle With Outs

Jeffage · #1 11-13-2005, 01:52 PM

80 game at Borg. I have 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG in a good game. I limp (we can argue if you want, but the game had been playing with many multiway pots and less preflop raising than usual). Two others limp, the last of which is a pretty good pro who is stuck a good amount and may not be playing his best. The SB calls and the BB checks. Five to the flop of 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Not bad. Anyway, SB checks, BB bets and I decide to raise. Folded to the pro who makes it 240 to go. SB folds, BB coldcalls, I call. The turn is the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB checks, I bet.

Comments on flop and turn play appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

mscags · #2 11-13-2005, 03:04 PM

I would like it a lot more if I thought you had a better chance of making him fold. I guess this is kind of player dependent, but it seems like the pot is big enough that I don't think he is folding this hand right there. You are very unlikely to get raised unless from the SB, and of course you have lots of outs to the winner. I think good arguements can be made for either side though. This seems a lot like that one hand that we talked about a while ago and you said that my semi-bluff didn't have any real value because there wasn't any chance I could get a fold. I think this runs along the same line, except that there is probably somewhat of a chance that he will fold, but it isn't very likely IMHO.

Scags

#3 11-13-2005, 05:17 PM

PREFLOP: Who cares if this is right or wrong, if you folded there would be no story, but I would fold in this spot since I doubt the game is passive enough, but you were the one that was there, not me. FLOP: I know you have a moster draw, but the pot is still very small and there are 3 players behind you, I think you will make more money here by calling and letting them in instead of raising and potentially folding them out. If the pot was bigger then the flop raise is standard. Given the way you played the hand, once the pro 3 bets and the BB coldcalls you should 4bet it. The 4bet is for pure value, since you are getting 2-1 on your 4bet and you are less then a 2-1 underdog to have the best hand by the river. TURN: This pot has now gotten quite large, although unlikely there is still a chance you may have the best hand(the pro couldve been 3 betting a flush draw on the flop) and the BB could have anything, if this turn gets checked around that would be a catastrophe for your hand, so I think betting this turn is the right play. You only need to have the best hand here a small percentage of time to make betting the turn correct.

Jeffage · #4 11-13-2005, 10:02 PM

I think the preflop call was too loose, but not over the top based on the game I was in. It was marginal and folding was the better play.

After I bet the turn, the pro called and now the BB checkraised. I called and the pro called. River was an offsuit Jack. BB bet, I folded and pro also folded. BB claimed he flopped the nut straight and pro later told me he flopped a set, which I believe. More comments welcome.

Jeff