Did I misuse the Way ahead/way behind idea?

cmwck · #1 04-09-2005, 02:33 AM

No significant reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

There's no point in going to war once we get heads up correct?

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ...

Do I continue the check/call line, or do I bet here?
I see betting the river show up in WA/WB lines a lot, but what worse hand will call me?

Or did I screw this hand up from the flop?

A_C_Slater · #2 04-09-2005, 03:06 AM

I check/call river and expect to be shown a jack. You called on the turn right? He knows you must have something. In which case he will give up his bluff and check it down or he will bluff at it again and you will win an extra BB. betting out accomplishes nothing because he will just fold. Unless, he maybe has a pocket pair, but most of the time he will have a wider range of hands that he will fold with or bluff.

thesharpie · #3 04-09-2005, 03:12 AM

If he had a jack he probably wouldn't want to raise the flop as it might knock MP3 out, and it might get you to fold if you have overcards instead of letting you carry on bluffing. Plus people at this level usually like to wait until the turn with a hand like that.

A 4 is unlikely, although certainly possible to limp with UTG. He probably has some kind of pocket pair or is trying to push you off overcards.

I 3 bet the flop and go into call down mode if he caps the flop. Otherwise lead the turn and river.

cold_cash · #4 04-09-2005, 04:34 AM

I could make a case for both betting and checking the river, but I think the important thing is that you get to showdown.

If you had a read that would allow you to do otherwise it would be different. I don't like to bet/fold too much against unknown players. Although if you did bet, the average player isn't going to raise you with a hand you're beating. The problem is we don't know if this guy's average or not. He might be a loon who likes trying to get people to fold the best hand.

On the other hand, I think he'd probably pay off with quite a few hands because he thinks you've got AK or AQ and are trying to bluff him out.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you can't fold to a raise on the river, don't bet. Ideally I want one bet going in, and I want a showdown. It might be weak, but against an unknown that's how I'd play it.

I think you played the hand perfectly. Raising the flop or turn is wrong.

aK13 · #5 04-09-2005, 05:25 AM

I'd consider 3 betting the flop to see how much UTG likes his hand.

cmwck · #6 04-09-2005, 05:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd consider 3 betting the flop to see how much UTG likes his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how this helps. He'll cap if we're behind, and he'll call if we're ahead or behind. The problem with his calling the 3-bet is that you still don't know if you're behind or not.

@bsolute_luck · #7 04-09-2005, 10:24 AM

call down is right. it's already HU, so 3-betting either gets it capped or folded. if he's bluffing let him bluff all the way home. there are no straight or flush draws, so the free card play is stupid.

if he checks the turn, i'd have bet the river, but he didn't. check/call the river.