10/20 On the Edge

Poldi · #1 09-30-2005, 12:10 PM

Opponents are the more passive type of 10/20 but nothing special (no LAGs, no calling stations), it was a good table.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

River: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

I had to think about 10 secs before I bet the turn. There was a small chance I could take it down and I could easily fold to a raise.
I thought I cant check-call with proper odds but when I bet good things might happen (like only one calls but fails to draw out) making the bet +EV.
On the river I wouldnt overcall but call against one.
What do you think?

Lmn55d · #2 09-30-2005, 12:22 PM

bet the river.

Victor · #3 09-30-2005, 12:25 PM

i would proly bet the river. none of the prior action, nor the board texture, indicates that you are behind. your opponents hand range is huge as these fools can easily be on gutshots and overcards. a common scenario is one guy is drawing the other has a weak pair like 6's. you have an easy fold to a raise but i think you are missing value by check calling as its unlikely hands like 55, 44, 6x are betting but will gladly call your bet.

change your hand to a8 and its a super easy value bet on the river. do you agree?

also, i would think that check/folding is likely better than check/calling here due to the protected pot.

Poldi · #4 09-30-2005, 12:27 PM

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bet the river.

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I dont think I m good anywhere near 55% when called. I also dont see better hands folding and I open myself to a bluffraise. I doubt they are capable of it but you never know at 10/20.
Please explain why you wanna bet here.

Lmn55d · #5 09-30-2005, 12:27 PM

Ax calls as well. LPs draw to their ace and when they get to the river they think they might have the best hand so they call.

Victor · #6 09-30-2005, 12:29 PM

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Ax calls as well. LPs draw to their ace and when they get to the river they think they might have the best hand so they call.

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i agree. i am always amused by the garbage ppl will call river bets with.

Lmn55d · #7 09-30-2005, 12:29 PM

If you get 2 callers you only need to be good about 33% for one thing. Second, even if you are only called by one, I guarentee you that you are ahead more than 55% against typical 10/20 LPs. As Victor said, their range includes Ax (definitely calling), 6x, 8x which is more than enough to value bet. Almost all these check through, the better hands bet when you check to them so check/calling is pointless imo. I wouldn't expect a bluffraise from loose passives in a 3way pot.

Poldi · #8 09-30-2005, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you get 2 callers you only need to be good about 33% for one thing. Second, even if you are only called by one, I guarentee you that you are ahead more than 55% against typical 10/20 LPs. As Victor said, they're range includes Ax (definitely calling), 3x, 5x which is more than enough to value bet. Almost all these check through, the better hands bet when you check to them so check/calling is pointless imo. I wouldn't expect a bluffraise from loose passives in a 3way pot.

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You 2 convinced me, thanks!
Do you like the turn?

Lmn55d · #9 09-30-2005, 12:31 PM

yes, in a game where people peel with one overcard regularly, you absolutely have to follow through.

Jeff W · #10 09-30-2005, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think I m good anywhere near 55% when called. I also dont see better hands folding and I open myself to a bluffraise.
Please explain why you wanna bet here.

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You actually don't have to be good 55% of the time to "value bet" the river out of position. The only criterion you need to satisfy is that betting is more profitable than check-calling or check-folding.