When do you stop raising and give credit for aces?

Keres · #1 07-06-2005, 06:34 PM

Not much of a read, couple orbits, don't remember seeing player play a hand voluntarily.

Capping the turn I think is alright. What about the river?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (16.66 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Results in white below: 
Final Pot: 18.66 BB

Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.
Hero has Kd Kh (three of a kind, kings).
Button has Kc Ac (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.66 BB.

shant · #2 07-06-2005, 06:39 PM

I bet out the river and call a raise.

blackize · #3 07-06-2005, 06:41 PM

Id probably bet call the river since his only three reasonable holdings given the way things have played out so far are AA AK and TT. While you beat two of these you would think that he would have slowed down with AK or TT at some point given the action.

Paxosmotic · #4 07-06-2005, 07:03 PM

Anyone else want to step up with me and admit that they cap every street? I'd be launching bets hand over fist at this pot.

TiltsMcFabulous · #5 07-06-2005, 07:09 PM

Cap every street, no question about it.

~ Tilts

ThisHo · #6 07-06-2005, 07:17 PM

Is QJs a possibility here? Villain is bad and wants to isolate EP raiser with QJs hoping for a flop that misses AK and lucks into the nut straight?

I think I'm betting the river and calling a raise. I don't think I have the heart to get it capped on the river. clearly this is where a read is nice as it could save or gain us that extra couple of bets.

bet/call on river.

ThisHO

Keres · #7 07-06-2005, 08:00 PM

after some thought, this isn't really a hand for discussion. How someone plays the river here is really just a litmus test for how aggro or weak-tight someone is.

TiltsMcFabulous · #8 07-06-2005, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
after some thought, this isn't really a hand for discussion. How someone plays the river here is really just a litmus test for how aggro or weak-tight someone is.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there is a correct play on the river, and it is to bet and raise repeatedly. You are ahead of everything the villain could be holding except AA (1010, AK, A10, horribly misplayed gutshot queens or jacks). You have to act like it. If you get shown aces, well that's poker and it sucks.

~ Tilts

jjacky · #9 07-06-2005, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
after some thought, this isn't really a hand for discussion. How someone plays the river here is really just a litmus test for how aggro or weak-tight someone is.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there is a correct play on the river, and it is to bet and raise repeatedly. You are ahead of everything the villain could be holding except AA (1010, AK, A10, horribly misplayed gutshot queens or jacks). You have to act like it. If you get shown aces, well that's poker and it sucks.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]

no. villain overplayed his hand severely and hero had no chance to know it.

TiltsMcFabulous · #10 07-06-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
after some thought, this isn't really a hand for discussion. How someone plays the river here is really just a litmus test for how aggro or weak-tight someone is.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there is a correct play on the river, and it is to bet and raise repeatedly. You are ahead of everything the villain could be holding except AA (1010, AK, A10, horribly misplayed gutshot queens or jacks). You have to act like it. If you get shown aces, well that's poker and it sucks.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]

no. villain overplayed his hand severely and hero had no chance to know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. It's not about knowing what villian had, it's about simple odds. You'd be giving villian WAY too much credit if you could come up with a hand range set of probabilities where capping on every street is not hero's best play. A simple example should prove this point. Give the villain 1010. What about his play on the hand changes? Not much, if anything. Many players play AK exactly like this as well (do you see why? because they don't believe that with an A and a K on the board anyone is holding the case AAs or KKs).

The hand range for the villian is not terribly wide, but it includes at least 2 hands other than AA that he would in many circumstances play exactly this way. So you must certainly give him a significantly lower probability than 50% of holding aces here. That alone makes hero capping every street correct.

~ Tilts