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#1
08-10-2005, 03:38 PM
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Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
5/10 6 handed limit table on Empire. The table would be described as "average". I'm in the SB with QQ and the betting has been capped in front of me. I fold.
Good or Bad and why? $5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, August 10, 12:35:21 EDT 2005 Table Table 33585 (6 max) (Real Money) Seat 1 is the button Total number of players : 5 Seat 2: TheSqueeze79 ( $272.50 ) Seat 3: jinmaoshiwan ( $299 ) Seat 5: ugotbluff3d ( $272.31 ) Seat 6: Bugs2000 ( $300.50 ) Seat 1: EddieMedusa ( $235 ) TheSqueeze79 posts small blind [$2]. jinmaoshiwan posts big blind [$5]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to TheSqueeze79 [ Qs Qc] ugotbluff3d raises [$10]. Bugs2000 raises [$15]. EddieMedusa raises [$20]. TheSqueeze79 folds. 
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#2
08-10-2005, 03:43 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
Wrong forum and horrendously bad unless you want to get run over shorthanded.
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#3
08-10-2005, 03:46 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
wrong forum? Sorry then.
Why is it hurrendously bad? I don't get run over shorthanded.
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#4
08-10-2005, 04:00 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
This should have been posted in the shorthanded forum.
Anywho Why? Because making this fold over the long run will result in you folding the best hand and... There's a solid chance you could have significant equity over at least 2 of the raisers (AJ/AQ/KQs, possibly even worse trash) and this isn't 3 ubber rocks raising,3-betting and capping this is an average party 5-10. Assume stupidity and if you can't then you should be at another table as there's plenty where you can.
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#5
08-10-2005, 04:26 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
[ QUOTE ]
This should have been posted in the shorthanded forum. Anywho Why? Because making this fold over the long run will result in you folding the best hand and... There's a solid chance you could have significant equity over at least 2 of the raisers (AJ/AQ/KQs, possibly even worse trash) and this isn't 3 ubber rocks raising,3-betting and capping this is an average party 5-10. Assume stupidity and if you can't then you should be at another table as there's plenty where you can. [/ QUOTE ] Assuming stupidity at a 5/10 table just because its the party network isn't particularly clever. One player has JJ-AA/AK. The 3 bettor would notmally have have 99-AA/AJ-AK. Much more often than not I will be playing this hand for set potential AND I need the set to hold up. I'm getting worse than 4:1. If I'm getting positive equity its marginal at best so its far from a horrendous fold.
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#6
08-10-2005, 04:56 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
Raiser 1 could have almost absolutely anything. The 3-better will be slightly tighter, but you're still assuming way too much rationale and a way too tight range of hands when many lower pairs then you've included could be there KQ suited,AT suited, lots of other hands. The capper is the one that will have the best range but that still includes a slightly larger range then you are giving credit for. This is limit hold'em not NL, and folding here is simply looking for folds in moronic places. More import is to play well post flop then to try and make huge folds like this in this game.
In the long run you'll be far worse off in this game folding QQ here then calling. I'm done here though if you want to fold QQ then by all means continue to do so.
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#8
08-10-2005, 05:15 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
In the circumstances you describe the fold is awful.
I have played a lot of Party 5/10 (6 max) and the sequence raise/reraise/cap does NOT mean you are in awful shape. Yes you would prefer a Q on the flop or an overpair but to fold with no further information is bad. However I once folded QQ to a single raise from UTG when on the button in the same game. I had over 1000 hands on him and he had raised 1% of the time. The blinds presumably did not have the same data and called all the way to the river to be shown AA. He "might" have raised with more than AA and KK but 1000 hands is good enough for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] t
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#9
08-10-2005, 06:19 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
[ QUOTE ]
However I once folded QQ to a single raise from UTG when on the button in the same game. I had over 1000 hands on him and he had raised 1% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] If you know he has AA/KK how can you not expect to be getting correct implied odds? Presumably he will be happy to pump it up postflop, no? Unless he is a rock AND ridiculously passive postflop....?
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#10
08-10-2005, 06:22 PM
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Re: Folding QQ preflop at a shorthanded limit table.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] However I once folded QQ to a single raise from UTG when on the button in the same game. I had over 1000 hands on him and he had raised 1% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] If you know he has AA/KK how can you not expect to be getting correct implied odds? Presumably he will be happy to pump it up postflop, no? Unless he is a rock AND ridiculously passive postflop....? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he can possibly pump it enough post flop to make 7 extra bets postflop when you hit, especially if it's HU.
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