How would an expert play this?

[bugstud]

You have rolled 2's and are the bring-in. Do you start agressive, or slowplay? Assume the case 2 isn't dead. If you're lucky enough to pair the door card, what then?

[cavalier]

Roy West says to push small trips because they can be easily beat. In his book, he says which are "small" and which are "not small". Unfortunately, I read it Friday night and can't remember the cut-off.

I remember his logic was that any pair getting a lucky card to make it into trips will beat "small" trips, so you want people out fast. The bigger sets hold up more, so you don't have that extra concern of someone getting 1 lucky card.. they'd need 2.

[morgan]

Roy West says to push small trips because they can be easily beat. In his book, he says which are "small" and which are "not small". Unfortunately, I read it Friday night and can't remember the cut-off.

I actually just read this last night! 9's and lower are small, while 10's and up are big.

Note: I've read in another book (and Roy mentions this as well) that most experts will not slow-play big trips, since for instance a king limping looks fishy. However that same author said to slow-play small trips, since raising early just about gives away your hand.

Either way you play it, if you pair your door on 4th slow down and hope someone makes a boat. (but I'm not an expert).

Morgan

[34TheTruth34]

bug---

You didnt provide much information (i.e., what limit are you playing? how do the other players play? what other cards are out?), but I'll try my best. Since I play only 1-3 stud, here's my answer as it relates to the smallest game in the house:

First of all, the way the game is playing is the most important factor to consider. Some 1-3 games are extremely tight where a 3rd street raise pretty much buys the raiser a $3 pot. Of course at other times, you can raise to $4 with an ace showing and get 4 callers. Needless to say, if raises aren't getting people out, just bring it in for $3. Your ideal situation would be to play your rolled dueces against two opponents with big pairs.
If you happen to be in one of those TOM games (filled with Tight Old Men and no gamblers), you can't bring it in for $3 because you can't risk winning nothing with your potential goldmine. In that case, sometimes you have to suck it up and just bring it in for a dollar. This is bad because you're giving players with a pair of sixes or sevens a chance to hit their trips. They are big dogs to you, but they are getting good odds and sometimes they hit. I am more than willing to take that chance(as opposed to getting everybody out with a $3 bring-in), but I'd rather just play the hand 2- or 3-way for the maximum. This is the crux of Roy West's argument for playing the hand aggressively. It's not that rolled kings don't lose to straights and flushes the same way that rolled dueces do, it's just that rolled kings don't lose to that pair of sevens that caught his trips.

The other important factor is the other cards that are out. If there is an ace, king and jack all out (preferrably without duplicates also out), you should probably bring it in for $3 and hope that one of them has that pair and maybe even raises you. Also, if aggressive players have them, you may even be raised if that player doesn't have that pair. Nothing's better than ace-high betting into your trips all the way with almost no chance to win.

As far as pairing your door card goes, even if you brought it in for $3, players will first put you on a big pair in the hole (This is because they would slowplay rolled dueces so they think you would too). They will still draw to their flushes and straights. If you brought it in for $3 and then paired your door card and checked, that would be way too suspicious.

Hope all my rambling helped ya...

MDL

[bugstud]

thanks for the replies thus far...as always, there is is story behind questions like this. Online 2/4, I got the rolled 2's, brought it in and was raised by paint on my right, I called and a 10 called. On 4th I hit the quads, bet high and the 10 raised (!). Everyone else folded, I reraised, he capped. He capped every round thereafter and eventually ended up catching 3 aces in the end to get aces full. He started rolled as well and got very mad, of course [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I'm just wondering how other game situations would change the play.

[Mac]

I've only had the luck to pull quad 2's on 4th one time. Delicious... Nothing sweeter than checking quads on 4th and have it appear completely natural. Half the reason I play is for that feeling.
- MAC

[MRBAA]

The real answer to this question, as the other replies indicate, is "it depends". Rolled deuces is a big but vulnerable hand. I'd normally not open raise, but would be aggressive thereafter, with a goal of getting it heads up or three way by fifth street (or making the draws pay).

It just doesn't get any better than the quads situation you describe. I once had trip deuces on top in a $1-3 game at my other up card was a king, and I had two more cowboys in the hole. I was against two other players on the river, one had threes full. Obviously he put me on deuces full (not the kings full I had) and we capped it. The third player folded a straight after the first bet. Had she not been in, which limited us to three raises, I'm sure the small full would have never stopped.

[Andy B]

I have lost with rolled-up trips more times than I care to think about, but I have never lost to a higher set with them. It's always been to straights (usually) or flushes or one or two full houses. I don't think that the risk of losing to higher trips is what you should be concerned with. Your primary objective should be getting money into the pot, whether you have three dead Deuces or three Aces.

My usual MO is to limp in for the minimum and hope to re-raise. Clearly, stealing the antes with a rolled-up set is disastrous, but if the game is loose, you can play aggressively from the start. If you can bring it in for a full bet and expect five callers, fire away. A lot of players leave money on the table by slow-playing rolled-up trips. Only slow-play if you run the risk of losing all of your customers by raising. It's true that the bets are bigger on later rounds, but the players will be more inclined to call those big bets if there's money in the pot. I almost always play trips fast.

Having the case Deuce out doesn't make that much difference. I've won a lot more money with sets and full houses than I have with quads.

The one time I made quads on fourth street, I was nearly all-in in a $3/6 game. I limped in with (JJ)J, and caught the case Jack on fourth street. I tossed in my last six bucks in disgust, disgusted with myself for not having brought more money. I think I got three callers. The side pot was bigger than the main pot on that hand.

[MtSmalls]

Let's all remember too the maxim that says, you should never play the same hand the same way all the time. If you ALWAYS raise with Aces (split or otherwise), or ALWAYS raise with A-2-3, then your opponents will get a read on you and you can't make them pay you off when you catch the monsters.

[Andy B]

I can't remember who said this, but a few years ago someone posted that deception lies not in playing the same hand in different ways, but in playing different hands in the same way. I more or less always raise with Aces. There are very few exceptions, and I think that this is as it should be. I also frequently raise with big three-flushes, three random Broadway cards, small and medium pairs with an Ace kicker, and even lesser hands if I think I can steal. Even if I always raise when I have Aces, players can't automatically put me on them, because I raise with a lot of hands when I have an Ace showing. And they seem to pay me off in any case.