7 Card Stud Hi/Low split question

I am new to the forum but I have a question about a game that one of our weekly poker game member plays. It is basically a 7 card stud hi/low split game but the twist that he adds is that straights and flushes count so the best low is 6432A and you declare after the last round of betting(creating another round of betting) by either going high, low or both. What is bothering me is that straights and flushes count (and the effect of that) and that I do not seem to do well in this game. Too much hokey pokey. Is this game fair with the straights and flushes counting and any tips on how to win would be appreciated. Thanks

[benneh]

i don't see how this would be much different from normal hi/low, except the wheel wouldn't be as powerful. if straights and flushes count, can't you just declare for both when you hit a flush and a low? or does the low not count with flushes at all?

You can declare both ways but if it were a flush it would count for high and the low of 5432A would be high also therefore the rule of 6432A as the best low. Confusing to me. Would you please let me know what you mean by the term "wheel" in your post. thanks

[djr]

wheel = A2345

[Andy B]

Could you be more specific about the nature of the "hokey pokey" which is causing you not to do well?

Gosh, I haven't played with 64 rules in almost ten years. Why is it unfair? The other guys have straights and flushes count against them too, y'know.

I assume that there is no qualifier in this game.

One thing to keep in mind is that in order to scoop, you have to have at least six cards working for you, whereas in most high-low games, you can get by with five. Most sweepers in multi-way high-low pots are small straights, so those low straight cards are very nice to have. In your game, 345 is still a pretty good start, but not the monster it would be in most high-low games. It's a little harder to make a low, and while straights are good high hands, they are often beaten.

High pairs are a little better in your game because of the declaration aspect. If you're playing high-low with no declare and no qualifier, high pairs are utter garbage because almost anything is free-rolling on them. In a declare game, in order for a low hand to scoop, he has to risk his half of the pot in order to try for the high half. Many are reluctant to do this.

I still wouldn't play KQJ, though.

I understand your post to mean that, after the last card, there is a betting round, the declaration, and then another betting round. We used to do that back in the day until I talked them out of it. It's just too hard on the bad players, and they have a bad enough time as it is.

The declaration round is key. It allows you to escape with half the pot when you had no business being in there in the first place, or you can scoop a pot if you read the hands skillfully or you can manipulate someone into declaring incorrectly. Be very aware of what your opponents have and the way they are playing their hands. You need to have the best idea possible of what they have and which way they are going.

A couple of decent books you might consider:

Thursday Night Poker by Peter Steiner
The Complete Guide to Winning Poker by Albert Morehead

The Morehead book is even older than I am (© 1967), so it's a bit dated, but Morehead knew card games. His advice is a little tight, and Steiner a little loose, but they'll at least give you something to think about. You should also get Ray Zee's book and probably have a peek at Sklansky's section in Super/System. Just realize that you are going to have to make some adjustments for the rules of your game.

As an aside, be very sure that you have all contingencies worked out for how the pot is divided when someone declares both ways and blows it. Some play that if there is a tie, he is shut out. Others don't. I think the latter is more fair, but the former is more fun.

If someone declares both ways and is best in one direction and second-best in the other direction, he is shut out of the pot, of course. People differ as to how they handle this situation. I don't think you should be able to win in your direction if you don't have the best hand, but not everyone plays that way. An example:

Ron: A234K65
Chad: KKK49J4
Nate: 8763AJ9

Ron has a lock low and a six-high straight for high. He declares both, Chad declares high, and Nate declares low. Chad beats him for high with his full house, but Nate does not beat him for low. The way I've always played, Chad scoops. Some people say that Chad and Nate split. You need to make sure you have rules in place before this comes up.

Thank You, you reply is very helpful. With regard to the Hoky Pokey, it seems to complicate the game with the straights and flushes counting and the declaring round. I noticed most high low rules do not count straights and flushes and I wanted to clarify that this was a game others had heard of since I had not.
thanks again for your help [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]