Another multiway pot

[Bartholow]

I guess this hand combined with the other I just posted show that I have some serious trouble in multiway pots. I'm sure you won't like my play in this one. Seat 3 is loose aggro, seat 4 and 5 reasonable but a bit weak.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.05 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (4.53 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (12.53 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks

River - (12.53 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

Total pot: (12.53 BB)

[jon_1van]

3rd can be a call or a raise. Whichever.

4th - It is probably best to bet here. If you are ahead with KK then you are making a nice value bet. If Seat 3 really has Aces and helps isolate that is good for you too. So I like this bet. Keep in mind that Ts could very well have a medium live 4 flush right now.

5th is where things go to hell. I think this is a clear fold. You must improve to win. At least 2 people have draws that are better than yours.

[Roland]

I really like a raise on 3rd. I don’t wont even more people to enter this pot; also, since you said he’s aggro, he might 3-bet to knock out the players between you. That said, I can see calling too – it keeps the pot small, and hopefully the players behind won’t call with any pair (this is 20/40 after all).
When I saw his check on 4th I really thought he was going to check-raise… Do you think he was on a flush draw?
And I agree with Jon – 5th street is a fold. The pot isn’t all that big. He paired his door. You must improve. Arrrrhg.

[Bartholow]

I can certainly see raising 3rd, but sometimes I like to avoid playing a big multiway pot with just a pair, especially if it might not be the best pair. Since the raiser is kinda bad aggro instead of good aggro, I think he'll only 3-bet if he does in fact have aces probably; I know I'd still rather be headsup perhaps, but it might still not get headsup, and now the pot starts to get so huge that I may have to keep calling with the second best pair. Or at least that's how I reasoned it out...

On 4th, after the TJs checks (indicating it's rather unlikely that he has 4 flush IMHO), I'm back to WANTING the ace to checkraise. Or at least I don't mind much. As for what I thought he had, could be a lot of things, including 3-big cards.

On 5th, part of the reason that I didn't think the jacks meant trips was that he hadn't reraised the loose aggro player on 3rd. Coupled with a dead jack, I thought he could easily have 2 pair or just jacks and a 3 flush. But when everyone called again, it just felt like too many bullets to dodge.

Since this thread isn't getting the attention of my OTHER botched hand, I'll go ahead and reveal that I won this hand with unimproved kings! Seat 3 and 4 both had flush draws to start, and seat 5 had a pair of tens. Still, seems like I sucked on this one.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
I can certainly see raising 3rd, but sometimes I like to avoid playing a big multiway pot with just a pair, especially if it might not be the best pair. Since the raiser is kinda bad aggro instead of good aggro, I think he'll only 3-bet if he does in fact have aces probably; I know I'd still rather be headsup perhaps, but it might still not get headsup, and now the pot starts to get so huge that I may have to keep calling with the second best pair. Or at least that's how I reasoned it out...

[/ QUOTE ]


Makes sense. One of the reasons to keep pots small though is that you can make easier laydowns if, say, someone pairs their door… [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Of course, I’m not saying your raise was completely wrong or something; if you trust your read, hey…


[ QUOTE ]
Since this thread isn't getting the attention of my OTHER botched hand, I'll go ahead and reveal that I won this hand with unimproved kings!

[/ QUOTE ]


Nice hand! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


[ QUOTE ]
seat 5 had a pair of tens.

[/ QUOTE ]


He sucks.

[Andy B]

I'll go along with the rest of the panel. Either calling or raising on third is fine. Betting fourth is good. I think fifth is a fold, though.