two questionable draws

ubercuber · #1 08-20-2005, 09:01 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: 16 BB

Should I have folded in here somewhere and if so why...the pot odds were there unless you think UTG+1 will reraise than I am not sure. These draws suck money from me like...ummm, something...the frickin IRS, that works. An endless series of this type of junk and second best strong hands...is that what variance looks like?

Ok here is another one:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

I can see alot of reasons to fold this on the flop.

aK13 · #2 08-20-2005, 09:06 PM

You have flush draws on both on the flop. Folding anywhere except the river in either is terrible.

istewart · #3 08-20-2005, 09:09 PM

Write down a note on MP1 for Hand 2.

hemstock · #4 08-20-2005, 09:27 PM

Hand #1
You have a huge equity edge on the flop so you have to raise the flop. Calling the turn is fine.

Hand #2
Calling is fine. Your flush might not be strong enough given the action and the paired board. But still your draw is strong enough to call.

detruncate · #5 08-20-2005, 09:30 PM

You could consider 3-betting the flop in hand 1 with a nut flush draw + ace overcard + position, but calling is fine too as it looks relatively unlikely that you're going to get a free card. The turn call is fine.

Hand 2 is fine.

ubercuber · #6 08-20-2005, 10:26 PM

In hand two if the Turn card is instead 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], now I have a pretty weak flush- AA,TT, AT, and a bigger flush beat me...as does JT
after the river. Is there value is raising with hand...reraising?

detruncate · #7 08-20-2005, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In hand two if the Turn card is instead 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], now I have a pretty weak flush- AA,TT, AT, and a bigger flush beat me...as does JT
after the river. Is there value is raising with hand...reraising?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Assuming you were talking about a turn 6 of flush, yes... you should raise. You probably have the best hand. You shouldn't worry about flush over flush until given a reason to, and our opponents are much more likely to have been pushing a good ace and/or trips on the flop than a boat or draw.

You're right to pay attention to the paired board, but we shouldn't worry too much about it. The pot big and we will usually have plenty of equity on the turn or river when we improve.

ubercuber · #8 08-21-2005, 12:38 AM

Yeah the flush...I'll edit that typo.

I am starting to play scared and I think it is because
I have been in the following situation an ungodly number of times...I get a strong hand and my opponents get an even stronger hand. I imagine that all players have streaks of this nature, but I am beginning to play weakly. (These "obvious calls" were difficult to make, and I had to ask to make sure they were correct.)

I didn't hit these flushes, and it is good thing on hand 2 because I would have been killed by quad tens!

I find myself hating Party Poker due to the stream of draws that cost a ton to play and don't hit, and the second best hands that are usually big hands but run into boats and quads! I have bonii that I hesitate to whore because Eurobet marked the first bunus that left me below my initial deposit after clearing (albeit only $20.00).

This is sounding whiny, but I am actually refering to my other question in the original post (and hoping that I will hear that this happens to everybody instead of that I am a dilusional fish)...what does variance look like, besides the bankroll going south?

ubercuber · #9 08-21-2005, 12:40 AM

It is too late to Edit I guess, but I meant the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], or any heart for that matter.

detruncate · #10 08-21-2005, 01:07 AM

No worries. We get you.

Putting in multiple bets with a good hand that doesn't hold up or a strong draw that doesn't come in hurts. But it's important to remember that it only hurts in the short term. Poker is all about longterm EV. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Just do your best to make +EV plays and try not to sweat the short term. The long term is longer than you think. In fact, I'm tempted to go into my Douglas Adams impression to try to convey the sheer longtermness of it all... but probably best to save that for when I'm less drunk.