Jam the turn?

speirs · #1 07-06-2005, 04:18 PM

So this 'beauty' came up tonight. I was wondering if I got the full amount from it or if I should have jammed the turn. At that moment I decided to call and keep the others in for the extra bets.

No particular reads, second orbit.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

River: (13 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB

shant · #2 07-06-2005, 04:23 PM

You should have re-raised the turn. If they had high clubs they're calling lots of bets on the turn to draw. They also might be morons and call with other crap.

thejameser · #3 07-06-2005, 04:30 PM

with that 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]falling i bet out every time with the HOPES i get raised so i can 3bet. reraise the turn, lead the river and hope it gets raised again.

adamstewart · #4 07-06-2005, 04:44 PM

First off, this has to be said: "Fold that [censored] preflop." Even though you're in the small blind, and have multiple callers, T7o is [censored]! Nothing but minimal equity, domination, and the reverse implied odds that go along with it. You got lucky.

Having said that,... Re-raise the turn!! You missed out on at least 6 Big Bets here. (~300 hands worth of work).

Adam

Nick C · #5 07-06-2005, 05:03 PM

I agree with the others that you should have 3-bet the turn.

That said, I can see what you were doing, and it is sort of a guessing game, because it's possible UTG+2 and CO have hands they'll call one more with but not two. For instance, maybe someone with just a jack with no clubs or even just a nine with no clubs will fear either you or Button must have a made flush and go away. Someone with a hand like A8o also might call one more but not two.

So it could be that your plan worked out as well as (or possibly even better than) a turn 3-bet would have. But if UTG+2 and CO like their draws too much to give them up (and there are a lot of possible draws on this board), it sure would be nice to get additional bets from them in on the turn, and that's what I would go for.

speirs · #6 07-07-2005, 02:14 AM

Yes you are right, I made a very loose call there. Please don't kill me.

speirs · #7 07-07-2005, 02:18 AM

Thank you and the others for the explanation.

At that moment a call seemed the best way to go to keep people in and not scare them out. I guess you are right that people maybe will not let go of their hands anyway, for example when they hold an A and/or K of clubs. Something to think about next time.

baronzeus · #8 07-07-2005, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, this has to be said: "Fold that [censored] preflop." Even though you're in the small blind, and have multiple callers, T7o is [censored]! Nothing but minimal equity, domination, and the reverse implied odds that go along with it. You got lucky.

Having said that,... Re-raise the turn!! You missed out on at least 6 Big Bets here. (~300 hands worth of work).

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I play this every time given like 14:1 odds here. You have a fair enough chance hitting 2 pair, trips, or a straight draw on the flop that makes this worth it.

adamstewart · #9 07-07-2005, 09:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First off, this has to be said: "Fold that [censored] preflop." Even though you're in the small blind, and have multiple callers, T7o is [censored]! Nothing but minimal equity, domination, and the reverse implied odds that go along with it. You got lucky.

Having said that,... Re-raise the turn!! You missed out on at least 6 Big Bets here. (~300 hands worth of work).

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I play this every time given like 14:1 odds here. You have a fair enough chance hitting 2 pair, trips, or a straight draw on the flop that makes this worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what to you do when you hit a T or 7-high board? Fold?
What about when you pair 2nd highest on the board? Fold?

Adam