Pre-flop play against two posters

Wepeel · #1 05-24-2005, 10:33 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3. MP2 posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero...

What's your guys' opinions on this preflop in the sb?

mtdoak · #2 05-24-2005, 10:34 AM

standard IMHO. Your hand goes well against three random hands.

Haupt_234 · #3 05-24-2005, 10:35 AM

Without position, i'm folding. It isn't likely that both of them will fold, esepcially when they have position on you.

Haupt_234

jackdaniels · #4 05-24-2005, 10:39 AM

I don't complete with K high against 2 known aggressives (assuming such as you said you recognized them as posters). If you are feeling frisky, take a flop - but I prolly don't raise here and build a pot/create odds for them to call a flop bet.

damaniac · #5 05-24-2005, 01:15 PM

Raise that biyatch. We got two substandard hands (again, most players will raise somewhat lighter here, even substantially lighter, the fact that they aren't really says something). You have 3 big blinds posted, so if even 2 of them fold, which will happen a lot of the time given the action (need a read on the bb too), you have a BB of dead money in the pot. Plus, he'll miss a lot of flops (pairing 1/3 of the time, maybe a draw some other % of the time, plus you'll hit your flops sometimes too), so a flop bet takes it down a lot of the time. Completing really sucks, IMO. I have a decent enough hand, and I'm not letting three people play for free.

Finally position shouldn't matter so much since a) we actually have an advantage, seeing two posters check already, and b) we expect to take it down either now or with a flop bet a lot of the time, so who cares if we act first or last? Only time it sucks is when we get called on the flop. Then you gotta play poker.

damaniac · #6 05-24-2005, 01:35 PM

I should add, when they check in that type of situation, it screams "Passive!" (kind of an oxymoron there), so you can usually count on them not to make a move on you on the flop. That's hugely important, because we get to bet and give them a chance to fold, instead of them betting into us or c/ring us and putting pressure on us. We control the action.

Piiop · #7 05-24-2005, 01:37 PM

Fold.

It's K8o, a 1/3 blind structure, and you're out of position. I understand they've posted their blinds and we want to raise to make them fold, but I think K8o is too weak in this situation.

JoshuaD · #8 05-24-2005, 01:46 PM

I think everyone's missing that this is a 7-handed game. I'm raising this every time.

Even in a full ring I raise this. We don't need them to fold for this to be a good raise.

Wepeel · #9 05-24-2005, 02:58 PM

Below is what actually took place during the hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3. MP2 posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

I'm surprised some of you advocated folding. I questioned just completing, but with three random hands and 3 small bets already in the pot there seemed to be only the option of raising and trying to fold as many hands as possible.

As Damaniac put it, posters will reduce their raising standards by a lot in these situations, so when both of them check I can clearly say they have worse than just a random hand. This definitely gives me an edge in the pot and shows me they are passive and regardless of the flop I think you can take it down here with an auto flop bet plenty of times.

jackdaniels · #10 05-24-2005, 03:19 PM

What do you do if you miss the flop? I'm guessing bet out anyway. One folds, one calls. Turn also misses you, do you bet or check now? If you check, what is the likelyhood it is being checked behind? If it is bet behind you, do you call with King high now?

Recipe for trouble out of position against players who know what they are doing.