Ray Zee Bought Me Ice Cream

[J.A.Sucker]

I was up in Colma the other night, and I was dealt the nuts. Upon moving to the main game, I move to the open 2 seat. The 4 seat is occupied by poker's favorite minstrel, Tommy Angelo, and the 1 seat by the great Ray Zee. I got to spend several hours talking with Ray, and it was fantastic. I learned a lot, and had a great time.

During the session, there were a couple of hands that were interesting.

Hand #1: I'm on the button, and I see AhKh. A bad player limps in, an OK player who's steaming raises, it's folded to me, and I 3 bet. Both call.

Flop: Kd 8d 3c. Limper checks, steamer bets, I raise. Limper folds, steamer calls.

Turn: 9h. Steamer bets. Your play?

Hand #2: Gawd-awful button opens with a raise, Ray Zee calls in the SB, you call in BB with Qc8c.

Flop: Qs 7c 3s. Ray bets, you raise, button calls 2 cold. Ray calls.

Turn: Ac. Ray checks, you bet. Button calls, Ray calls.

River: 4s. Ray checks, you check, button bets. Ray folds. Do you make the crying call?

[Barry]

Hand 1

I'm alway suspicious when someone bets into me on the turn. With a big hand most players would go for a checkraise on the turn. Maybe he has a weaker K and is afraid you won't bet the turn. I say raise the turn.

Hand 2

You've got 2nd pair, weak kicker and there is a flush on board, not exactly a monster. Is this the kind of guy who would bluff at the pot or is he the rocky type that would only bet with it? You're getting 10:1 to call, so if the former, I would call, but if the latter fold. If he hasn't been called on the river in a while I'd be more likely to call.

But then again, I probably pay off a little more than I should....

[gaylord focker]

Hand one- I raise the turn and possibly check the river depending on what falls.

Hand two- Looks you are getting about 10-1 on a call here, if he's capable of bluffing I'd call, even though just about everything got there.

[Ulysses]

Hand 1: I'd raise the turn.

Hand 2: If he's garden variety gawd-awful, I usually fold.

[Diplomat]

Hand 1: What kind of ice cream did he buy you? If it was chocolate, I say raise. If it was vanilla, I say call. And if it was some fruit-flavour, fold and go play stud, or maybe craps.

Hand 2: Now this is where the brand of the ice cream comes into play. If it was no-name, clearly you have a call. But if it was a known brand, perhaps a Ben & Jerry's creation, you must fold, and it's not close.

-Diplomat

[cero_z]

Hi J.A.,
Hand 1 is a re-raise about 100% of the time. I would then bet the river (and call a raise) no matter what fell. Steamer's thinking is, "I will foil this semi-bluff flush-draw flop raise by betting if a diamond doesn't fall. After all, I have KT (thru KQ), so he probably doesn't have a King also."

Hand 2 you played great at every point, and now you must call. How nice that Ray folded; you have a very decent chance of winning this hand.

Good Post!

[shemp]

#1. Raise the turn.

#2. I think this is an interesting situation that comes up all the time, in that it is somewhat like being on the receiving end of a turn raise on a paired board or many other situations. Does this guy need the goods? The world seems to clearly break down into two groups, those that you need to call and those you don't, and the latter group is larger than the former -- but you often don't know in which group to put your opponent, and the guys you need to call down number enough and are incorrigible enough that it seems difficult to default to folding.

It all starts to point out the importance of check raising the river here with a variety of strong to strongish hands, particularly with Ray Zee in the middle, and maybe running a c/r bluff occasionally.

Anyway. I think you don't win this pot 1 in 10 times against a random opponent, but against many opponents you win it much more than 1 in 10. Yeah. That doesn't help at all.

[J.A.Sucker]

One scoop of vanilla, one scoop of chocolate. Now what? The brand was Double Rainbow, a decent San Francisco brand.

[symphonic]

The clear answer is to show Ray your cards and ask him what he would do. duh. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

Hmmmm... Did you consider having him buy you some halo-halo? That would have been the expert play.