AQs preflop (how's my play?)

subzero · #1 09-23-2005, 08:11 AM

$5+.50 MTT at Stars. 391 people left (1615 total). Just got moved to the table, so no reads. How's my play? Any other lines? Thanks in advance.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 (t13010)
MP1 (t11080)
MP2 (t4835)
MP3 (t4415)
CO (t10750)
Button (t5695)
SB (t4044)
Stern (t2480)
Imus (t2550)

Preflop: Stern is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Imus raises to t400, 6 folds, SB calls t300, Stern raises to t2480, Imus calls t2080, SB folds.

Flop: (t5360) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t5360) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t5360) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t5360

Dave D · #2 09-23-2005, 09:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$5+.50 MTT at Stars. 391 people left (1615 total). Just got moved to the table, so no reads. How's my play? Any other lines? Thanks in advance.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 (t13010)
MP1 (t11080)
MP2 (t4835)
MP3 (t4415)
CO (t10750)
Button (t5695)
SB (t4044)
Stern (t2480)
Imus (t2550)

Preflop: Stern is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Imus raises to t400, 6 folds, SB calls t300, Stern raises to t2480, Imus calls t2080, SB folds.

Flop: (t5360) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t5360) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t5360) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t5360

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Don't min raise, ever. It's the sign of a weak player, wrong, bad, causes kittens to die, etc.

Seriously, especially UTG min raising here with any stack is horrible. If you never min raised in a tournament, you wouldn't be far from right. Min raising is only acceptable if you're really sure it'll get villian to go over the top on you or something, or very late in tournaments when blinds are very high. But I personally pretty much never do it.

2. At the start of this hand, you have 12 BBs. You're basically in push or fold territory. Maybe not as much if it folds to you on the button, but UTG if you want to play this hand, you have to open push. You want to maximize fold equity, because you still have a lot of goons to act behind you who may have a PP they want to call with. Price them out, and make it wrong to call. If you had raised correctly (or even now), a standard cont. bet will probably pot committ you (or come close), so you might as well open push.

I think an argument could be made for folding this PF, I dunno, that's probably a weak tight thing to do. I think I'm probably pushing this pretty much every time (especially w/ no reads on the table) and hoping for the best.

You had to call the push there.

subzero · #3 09-23-2005, 09:34 AM

I totally agree with you about not min-raising, but I was in the BB here. Min-raiser was villain (sorry for the confusion). How's my play?

betgo · #4 09-23-2005, 09:54 AM

This is real read-dependent. An UTG miniraise could mean a big pair. I think pushing, calling, and folding are all reasonable.

Dave D · #5 09-23-2005, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with you about not min-raising, but I was in the BB here. Min-raiser was villain (sorry for the confusion). How's my play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah it's my bad, I just can't read.

I think I like the play since you only have 12 bbs, but yeah UTG min raise is like the biggest tell ever of a big pair so it's up to you if you wanna gambool.

subzero · #6 09-23-2005, 10:18 AM

I thought about calling, but it would've been hard to get away from that flop. I can't see folding preflop to a donk min-raise.

subzero · #7 09-23-2005, 10:19 AM

Dominated. MHING [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

Results: 
Hero has Ac Qc (two pair, aces and twos).
UTG has Ad Kc (two pair, aces and twos).
Outcome: UTG wins t5360.

dmk · #8 09-23-2005, 10:27 AM

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1. Don't min raise, ever. It's the sign of a weak player, wrong, bad, causes kittens to die, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're way off on this. When you make your raise preflop, you want to bet the least amount that people will fold to. If it happens to be 2BB instead of 3BB, why would you waste an extra BB when someone comes over the top of you. Many times you will find that once the blinds are up to a certain point (lets say 1k/2k on stars for arguments sake), a raise to 4k is effectively the same as 6k. So why would you unnecessarily risk an extra 2k of your stack?

#9 09-23-2005, 11:00 AM

Without any additional info, I would have been a little suspicious of the 2X raise UTG. It can mean a number of different things. However, I find that often people like to do that with a monster to encourage action. (400 is enough to get marginal hands to fold generally, but to get action from hands you still have dominated). I would probably either just call the 200 more, and see what the flop brings. Alternatively, I would maybe raise another 400, in order to define your hand better. If he goes over the top, you can fold to what is likely a monster with still enough chips to have FE. If he just calls, then you know if you hit the flop, it is likely the best hand, and you can move your chips then. I do not like the AI move here, because there is too much of a chance of being dominated or on the wrong side of a coin toss.

#10 09-23-2005, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1. Don't min raise, ever. It's the sign of a weak player, wrong, bad, causes kittens to die, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're way off on this. When you make your raise preflop, you want to bet the least amount that people will fold to. If it happens to be 2BB instead of 3BB, why would you waste an extra BB when someone comes over the top of you. Many times you will find that once the blinds are up to a certain point (lets say 1k/2k on stars for arguments sake), a raise to 4k is effectively the same as 6k. So why would you unnecessarily risk an extra 2k of your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree.