tricky good or tricky bad

rootsmusic · #1 05-18-2005, 01:21 PM

HAND #1

Read on opponent is abc, cautious.

$4 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($400)
CO ($300.00)
Button ($500)
SB ($400)
BB ($260)
UTG ($520)
UTG+1 ($415)
UTG+2 ($187)
MP1 ($112)
MP2 ($580)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, 4 folds, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, Button raises to $32, 2 folds, UTG folds, Hero raises to $86, Button calls $54.

Flop: ($182) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($182) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $170
--------------------------------------------------

HAND #2

Perfect stacking technique or too much toying around?

$4 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($200)
CO ($325)
Button ($500)
SB ($310)
BB ($430)
UTG ($230)
Hero ($400)
MP1 ($200)
MP2 ($395)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $4. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, Hero raises to $14, 3 folds, CO calls $14, 3 folds, UTG calls $10.

Flop: ($52) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $24, CO calls $24, UTG folds.

Turn: ($100) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $24, CO raises to $48, Hero raises to $84, CO raises to $120, Hero raises to $358

aggie · #2 05-18-2005, 02:38 PM

Hand 1: This hand is pretty opponent dependent but in general i'm not a fan of a preflop reraise OOP. I don't mind the flop check, but i would bet slighttly less on the turn (way ahead or way behind)...Try to get paid off in the cases that you are ahead.

Hand2: In general, i'm not a fan of this preflop raise. What are you trying to accomplish. The bet on the flop is probably too small (just by a little)...I'm also not a fan of your turn play....Get the money in faster

BloodyRomance · #3 05-18-2005, 03:17 PM

The reraise preflop is questionable to me because you're out of position with a raiser behind. The Flop check was fine, I actually kind of like that, but I think you bet the turn too much, you're either way behind [so you bet smaller in case you get raised by JJ and lose less] or way ahead [smaller bet=more likely he'll want to call] and he won't fold when he might pay you off. The pot is 170, a bet of around 90-130 seems ok? As for the second hand, that is just too many reraises. The turn bet is a little small, but atleast you got those raises and reraises in there. You can either push it right there or call and try to get it all in on the river, but since you're OOP, you should just push it.

AZK · #4 05-18-2005, 03:17 PM

I routinely make this raise with Axs in late position, I agree this is a bit early, I normally wait for late MP/CO/Button and most of the time it's a raise I dont' think the late position player will call so I can have position. I've resorted to Limon's drawing strategy. Basically, if I'm playing a drawing hand, I'm raising to get everyone out after me so that I can have position the whole hand...

neon · #5 05-18-2005, 03:22 PM

Hand one I hate the rereraise preflop. You describe villain as ABC and cautious, and you're three-betting him pf w/ AK out of position? Then on the turn, what is your bet supposed to accomplish? Of the hands he would reraise you w/ and then call your rereraise, you're ahead of exactly one, QQ. AA might check the flop fearing KK, JJ or KK would likely check behind to be cagey, and AK isn't going to fold. So again, why bet so much on the turn? All you're going to do is scare away the one hand in his likely range of holdings that you're actually ahead of.

Hand two, I actually like the turn play a lot. Many players will interpret this beak as weak and come over the top w/ much weaker hands than what villain likely has, which is probably either a smaller flush or a set.

rootsmusic · #6 05-18-2005, 03:43 PM

In hand #2, the table was playing pretty loose preflop, moderate sized raises were routinely getting called by 2-4 players. One segment of players were raising small with legit raising hands, then often not protecting properly on the flop--underbets all over the place. Some trickier players were making the same type raises, then taking advantage of post flop weak bets by drawing out or pushing people around.
Raising with A8s in ep in NOT my normal line here, but I did it to mix it up and then play poker from flop onwards.

Hand #1: Again, I deviated from my normal line, but opponent seemed tight/weakish, and I wanted to give myself some "monster" credibility post flop in case Button thinks I was just messing around in LP with the raise. FWIW, with his min-reraise, I was pretty sure Button had JJ-AA, AK. I also thought there was a decent chance he could lay down a big pair postflop to a scary board.
In both this and the other table, preflop re-raises were almost always QQ-AA, while calling of preflop raises was going on with all kinds of holdings.
By checking flop after preflop action, I was hoping Button would put me squarely on KK or AA.

Both hands' preflop action is non-standard for me, hence the "tricky" title.

Thanks for the input

Kirkrrr · #7 05-18-2005, 08:29 PM

Disclaimer: Haven't read any of the other responses yet so I'm sorry if what I say has already been said 5 times. Likewise, always reserve the right to be stupid, ignorant, and just plain wrong.

Hand #1

I don't like the re-raise pre-flop, I'd just call. You're giving all the worse hands a chance to make a good escape and AA/KK will simply just call it. Opponent dependent, and you haven't mentioned anything about your opponents.

Normally, I like the flop check - sort of like an underpair that's scared of the overcard... but given the pre-flop action, I don't think you're fooling him (unless he's a complete moron, of course, and again you haven't mentioned anything among those lines). I'd bet about 2/3xPot and fold to a raise, shut down if just smooth-called. I don't see a normal, thinking opponent paying you off with a hand you beat on this board.

Hand #2:

My personal belief is that it's a fallacy to raise with a small suited Ace, especially OOP. You're getting called by bigger Aces and folding out the guy who was going to play K,5s of your suit. There's simply no good reason to do it.

I like the flop bet since no one will put you on the nut flush - TPTK that hated the flop. The turn bet I would have made bigger or even checked. If it's checked behind, that's fine - hopefully the other high suited spades will get there on the river. You bet, and that's fine too. I would have just called the raises and value bet the river. They are calling a reasonable bet with the pot odds at worst, and raising if you're having a really great day.

The board will pair about 20% of the time, and that's a risk I'm taking since the other 80% will more than make up for it. If it does, I'm check-calling depending on the river action. What sucks if you are out of position.

Hope that was at all useful,
Kirk R.