Is this IHC worthy?

Emmitt2222 · #1 06-01-2005, 08:43 PM

I guess a lot of my hands are either standard or stupid because I get very few responses. Anyway, is this hand interesting at all? Here are the reads after a very small sample size on them all:

MP2 seems to be pretty solid
SB seems to be pretty donkish, seemingly a typical dice who is pretty aggro preflop but not so much postflop
UTG is just complete and utter moron, his limp reraise could mean any two cards because big pots are fun.

I think every single street is pretty interesting so comments on anything are welcome.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (21 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

Jonny Melon · #2 06-01-2005, 08:49 PM

I think this is interesting. UTGs line is completely in alignment w/ KK or AA. I don't think you are ever ahead here against a reasonable player, but since UTG is an idiot, calling down is fine.

As an aside, you really need to think about waiting until the turn to raise. You need to think about hand protection here, and you can't protect your (vulnerable) hand on the flop. But you can on the turn, and if a safe card falls, you have more equity on the turn.

Jon

brettbrettr · #3 06-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Yes, this is interesting. Is it interesting enough? Find out tomorrow!

As an aside, even though UTG is a donk you're beat here, by someone. You got cold-called everywhere in a raised pot. I *think* I'd like to begrudgingly put in one bet on each of the later streets.

pre-Flop I think I'd cap.
flop I'd play the same.
Turn I'd check-call.
river same.

The thing is, if you'rre ahead on the turn check calling is awful.

Nick C · #4 06-01-2005, 09:10 PM

Given your read on SB, capping preflop is an option, I think, but I'm also okay with the call. Among other things, it could be useful to see what MP2 wants to do, and just calling also increases the possibility that you'll get to raise SB on the flop, in an effort to protect your hand.

As it turns out, after UTG's limp-cap, the pot's so big on the flop that, even though SB did bet into you after all, I wonder if just waiting until the turn to raise should be considered here. There are a couple of problems, though: (1) SB didn't slow down postflop this time, like he often does, and if he does bet again on the turn, it seems like there's a good chance you're drawing. Also, (2) if you don't raise, the chances that it'll get raised behind you go up, which could spoil your plans. It could be worth the risk, though.

But I probably would have just raised the flop, like you did.

On the turn, I really kind of want to 3-bet, but just calling may be sensible. UTG's preflop limp-reraise/flop cold-call/turn raise sequence does represent a monster, in its own way. Who knows what he has, though?

Anyway, calling down after getting raised on the turn seems okay to me. Among other things, while I think we have SB beat, I'm not even sure about that.

In any event, I think messy hands like this are at wild tables are fun, but they can also be very confusing. I find it hard to figure out what to do and where I stand in huge multiway capped pots like this one.

Emmitt2222 · #5 06-01-2005, 10:23 PM

Well, once again I fail to get more than a few responses. I not only suck at poker, but also posting.

My thoughts on the hand are as follows...
On the flop I am protecting my hand by raising so that people with overcards and no backdoors are not really getting the odds most likely. I was also hoping that UTG would 3bet a wide variety and this would help to elimnate the two players who I was more worried about in CO and MP2. I didn't really see calling as an option that seemed very appealing because then I would probably have to call one more behind me somewhere and it would do less to help me find out where people were. With the raise I was calling and folding the turn UI to any 3bet from someone other then UTG.

On the turn I didn't really want to check/call because all signs pointed to me having the best hand or at least second best. I did not want it to get checked all the way through and allow for a freecard on a twoflush board. As it turns out, it worked nicely when UTG raised because I wasn't too scared of him and it eliminated CO and MP2 who I was most concerned about. I didn't 3 bet because a cap would mean certain doom and I would have to fold in this huge pot and I still wasn't sure about SB.

On the river, the overcall seemed bad, but last time I folded in almost this exact same situation I had the best hand with the overpair of KK and lost a huge pot that should have been mine. UTG was a goof and SB did not do enough betting and raising to convince me I was beat.

Is my thinking correct here? Any spots I should really play different? Please, any more thoughts are gladly appreciated.

Bill C · #6 06-01-2005, 10:34 PM

I think your line is Okey-doke, given your reads.
3 players each cold-calling 2 bets on the flop after pf is capped, and 5 players going to the turn is a little unnerving though, isn't it? One of the donks could have a bigger pair, so maybe not raising on the turn, but just calling down from there is worth considering. With the flush card coming on the river, there's even more to worry about, but the pot's so big you have to call one.

Tough spot.

bc

brettbrettr · #7 06-02-2005, 12:01 PM

this hand seemed tricky to me last night when I read it, Still does. Input appreciated.

meep_42 · #8 06-02-2005, 12:12 PM

This hand gets my vote, this far, I think.

I like how you played it as it is really difficult to put UTG on a hand and you're not in a position to protect your hand with a 3-bet on the turn. On the river blank, a check/call/overcall seems the best plan if you think he'll fire with unimproved overcards or 99/TT. Also, if SB backed into a big hand and raises, you can get out cheap.

-d

brettbrettr · #9 06-02-2005, 12:13 PM

What do you think of the turn play? Check-calling to risky?

chief444 · #10 06-02-2005, 12:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG is just complete and utter moron

[/ QUOTE ]
And nobody else thinks the turn should be 3-bet? I can't imagine check/calling this turn.