TSP part 100/200 hand. standard, 0 EV, or tilt?

[NYplayer]

TSP seems to think he's pretty good and is happy to let us know that mike l. and JAsucker are weak while the party 30/60 paid his mortgage. I decided to watch some of his play and was wondering what you all think of this? i believe he knows what he's doing and i didn't agree with this. whenever i see a seemingly good player do something i wouldn't consider i think i may be the one who is wrong.

it is a tight aggressive party 100/200 game TSP is in the Big blind.

UTG+1 open raises, mp player calls, cuttoff calls, sb folds and now it's up to TSP. He is getting 7.5:1 on the call. He calls with 84o. is this a standard call? 0 EV or fishy play?

[stoxtrader]

7.5:1 would be enough on this if the .5 was from the small blind in an unraised pot ar your implied odds are double what they would be in this situation, In that SB situation an arguement can be made for calling with any two.

In this situation I disagree with the call. I would approach this situation by calculating the odds I make two pair or better with this hand on the flop. then estimating what I need to win and whether I will win that amount or bettre on avg in order to make this call profitable. I wish I remembered what the odds were for making two pair or better with a unsuited 3 gapper. anyone?

[jediael]

To call with any two, I think you should have about 10 to 1 pot odds.

[Schneids]

I wouldn't even make that call in a 6-max game if you said UTG+1 opened and was cold called by CO and button.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
7.5:1 would be enough on this if the .5 was from the small blind in an unraised pot ar your implied odds are double what they would be in this situation, In that SB situation an arguement can be made for calling with any two.

In this situation I disagree with the call. I would approach this situation by calculating the odds I make two pair or better with this hand on the flop. then estimating what I need to win and whether I will win that amount or bettre on avg in order to make this call profitable. I wish I remembered what the odds were for making two pair or better with a unsuited 3 gapper. anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Page 310 HPFAP: "if you hold 2 unmatched cards you will flop two pair 2.02 percent of the time."

That of course will be slightly better if you include flopped trips or str8 with 48o but overall I think that preflop call is atrocious.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
7.5:1 would be enough on this if the .5 was from the small blind in an unraised pot ar your implied odds are double what they would be in this situation

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a factor of two somewhat overstates the difference in implied odds between the two situations. Even though it costs you twice as much to call from the BB (relative to the size of future bets), there will usually be more postflop action in the larger raised pot than the one where everyone limped along.

(This is a side note. I'm not defending TSP's call, which I don't like).

[Nick B.]

Barry Greenstein addresses this a little in his book on page 151 under "Misusing Mathematics."

[Turning Stone Pro]

I don't recall the hand, but certainly a poor play on my part. No other nice way to say it.

TSP

[TheBusiness]

The only way that call could be even remotely justified was if your post-flop play was so superior to your opponents that you could make up the EV lost by playing so loosely preflop. And although I don't doubt TSP's skills, there are very few, if any people that are that much better postflop than the other decent 100/200 players.

[andyfox]

I saw a great player in a bigger game call from the big blind with a hand half as good. The way he played it post-flop convinced me it's not nearly as bad a play for him than it would be for me. And the way other players kept referring to it over the next few hours and making bad calls possibly based on that hand convinced me that it was definitely +EV for that player at that time in that game against those opponents.