KJ vs one early limper

jskills · #1 08-10-2005, 12:00 AM

New to this table, although villan seems somewhat TAGish.

Comments on any street appreciated.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero ?

Stop and go always seems to throw me. Can I assume he's got an ace or JT and fold even though I have 9 outs? If you advocate staying in the hand, what's the plan for the river.

Brunger · #2 08-10-2005, 12:15 AM

I don't like the pre-flop raise this early of a tight UTG limper. Even with 9 clean outs the turn call is close the fact that we can not even come close to assuming this means a I lean towards a turn fold.

Shillx · #3 08-10-2005, 12:18 AM

Skills,

Throw this crap into the muck preflop dude. Isolating maybe TAG UTG limps with KJo is a good way to go broke. I just call the flop too.

Brad

jskills · #4 08-10-2005, 12:20 AM

Fold preflop huh? I never even thought of that.

So you call the flop and fold the turn I guess?

pfkaok · #5 08-10-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop huh? I never even thought of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, your position isn't too good, and even on the button raising wouldn't be too hot, as KJo isn't too great vs. a nonloose players UTG limping hands.

erc007 · #6 08-10-2005, 12:46 AM

It wouldn't be a (very) bad play to raise this hand first in from MP2 with KJo...but it's definitely -EV to raise any UTG that's not a known LAG. This hand did exactly what it's supposed to do...make second-best hand, continue after the flop only if you want to pay-off.

Shillx · #7 08-10-2005, 12:49 AM

So you call the flop and fold the turn I guess?

Maybe, but usually no.

You have to think about what he is betting with and how he will react to a raise. If he has Ax he isn't going to fold so the raise does nothing for you there. If he has Jx, it does little use for you to raise. Since you have the best possible jack, why risk folding out QJ or JT or J9?? Let him bet 3 outs all the way since it will be tough to get a lot of value out of this hand with an ace on board. The flop is pretty drawless so it is unlikely that he is on a draw here. If he does have KT, he is drawing super thin in a small pot, so just let him throw his money away or maybe pop him up on 4th street if he won't bluff all 3 streets.

Brad

Edit - The hand you really don't want him to have is KQ. You need to get something from a 7-outer, so I'd call the flop and raise a safe turn if I felt he was on this hand.

jskills · #8 08-10-2005, 12:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you call the flop and fold the turn I guess?

Maybe, but usually no.

You have to think about what he is betting with and how he will react to a raise. If he has Ax he isn't going to fold so the raise does nothing for you there. If he has Jx, it does little use for you to raise. Since you have the best possible jack, why risk folding out QJ or JT or J9?? Let him bet 3 outs all the way since it will be tough to get a lot of value out of this hand with an ace on board. The flop is pretty drawless so it is unlikely that he is on a draw here. If he does have KT, he is drawing super thin in a small pot, so just let him throw his money away or maybe pop him up on 4th street if he won't bluff all 3 streets.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Very insightful Brad. Thanks very much. I never thought of it that way at all.

I never stop learning ...

damaniac · #9 08-10-2005, 01:02 AM

Not raising a limper here is bad. You can fold if you want in MP2, but raising >> calling. Even if the limper is tight.

Shillx · #10 08-10-2005, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not raising a limper here is bad. You can fold if you want in MP2, but raising >> calling. Even if the limper is tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising a tight limper in this spot is pretty bad. Someone who is limping with AJ or AQ or KQ or whatever demands repsect here. I almost always raise KJs after a limper, but I would just limp along here.

Brad