Stack size, Implied Odds and the 5-10 rule question(s)

[Skuzzy]

This is a question (or questions) about implied odds and position for anyone who can offer a decent explanation to a novice player.

The overall question is, what factors pre-flop offer the greatest chance of succesfully getting your required implied odds with speculative hands and how do you generalise this in terms of your play?

Unfortuantely this covers a lot of ground, including the application of the 5-10 rule on which I feel a bit uncertain.

so I have some problems....

Ciaffone's definition of the 5-10 rule says roughly: when considering a call when your position is good you have an easy call when it's less than 5% of your (and their) stack and an easy fold when it's more than 10%, between 5 and 10 percent of your stack size use your judgement.

1 - this can't be the same rule for small pairs, suited connectors, Axs, suited 1 gaps, suited 2 gaps, small offsuit connectors can it?

2 - how good is good position? Is MP3 ok to call with A8s but bad to call 56s with? Is relative position worth as much as the button?

3 - you're playing at Party with a 300BB stack vs. another 300BB stack, is a raise of 15BB still an easy call? Is raising this high and higher essential to prevent giving massive implied odds to the other big stacked player?

4 - how do you adjust for very tight players and very loose players? Do tight players offer better implied odds by virtue of being more likely to have decent values to play out the hand on?

5 - How should I adjust my estimation of implied odds when entering a pot when there is a raiser and a caller if either the raiser or caller is short stacked?




Currently I play it safe and stay out of the 'judgement area' between 5 and 10 percent. I'll call a standard raise with a small pair OOP. I like to be in MP3 as a minimum to call a raise with a SCs and Axs, suited gaps I only limp in. Big offsuit connectors are LP stealing hands only.

Despite the importance Ciaffone and Reuben place on relative position I still feel that the tendancy of "checking to the raiser" that it relies upon is less prevalent in the games I play. I may just be a weak tight scaredy cat though.

Thanx for any input

[jjacky]

unfortunately your questions are so general that it is almost impossible to answer them properly without writing a book.


1) small pairs are much better. if you hit what you are looking for, you have a monster with a small pair. if you hit your small suited connector, you have a draw (which can be very expensive in NL against a big overpair) and if you hit a flush you are vulnerable to redraws.

2) good position is absolute position + good relative position. a better position than the raiser is pretty much a must have.

3) no. it is an easy fold (unless you have a premium hand of course). if you hit your hand, you have to stack him extremely often (as much as 50% of the time). thats usually not possible.

4) preferable are players who are tight preflop and loose postflop. these players will usually have a very strong hand if they enter a pot from early or middle position and they will have problems to let the hand go if they are beat.

against someone who is loose preflop and tight postflop, your implied odds are not that good if you hit a monster on the flop but you will be able to steal sometimes.

5) if the caller is shortstacked, it is bad but not very bad. your main target is the raiser anyway. if the raiser is shortstacked - fold.

my answers were very rough. i hope it helped a little bit anyway.

[FlyingStart]

It's just called a rule, it's not stated by law. You seem to have a too fixed view on things.

If you have a 300*BB stack limp with 44 and then someone with a 300*BB stack raises to 15*BB, I'm not calling here not matter what the 5-10 rule says.
When reviewing you position it should be relative to the other players involved in the pot, and this evaluation normally takes plays after you have limper and then someone behind you has raised. I.e three players limp, you limp with 66, and then the button raises for 9*BB, everyone folds to you. Now you have to call alot and have bad position. I fold here. If on the other hand the same three limped, you again limped with 66, but the raiser was now in the BB and only raised to 6*BB and one of the other limpers called, you now have good position and get a better price on you money. I call here