Push with top 2 on flop?

UB $200. UTG+2 is fairly loose, pre and post flop. He has ~$550, I have ~$450.

Hero is UTG+1 with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Preflop: Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, 4 other calls, SB mini raises, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises $28, button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: ($122 in pot) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to UTG+2 who bets pot, button calls all-in for $64, Hero goes all-in for $425.

[joewatch]

I don't like all-in here. Surely you are tied or beat by button, and UTG+2 may very well have KK or QQ. Also, you don't have any redraws except maybe 4 jacks if you are behind.

I think without any suits, this is a fold preflop.

[boscoboy]

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I think without any suits, this is a fold preflop.

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i think you are setting yourself up for failure - of course im sure when you post the hand history it will show you turning a Q or rivering a K, and taking down a monster

[beset7]

snap off dem aces.

i probably push but i like variance.

[BluffTHIS!]

Top 2 out of position without good backup, especially when playing a larger stack is often just asking for trouble if you escalate it by checkraising multiway. The problem here is that you checked the flop when you should have lead at it to see where you stood (just the same as you should have with a strong draw). Despite the fact the villain is loose and would likely overplay aces, he can still make a legitimate hand occasionally and being loose could easily have raised with something like A332 and show you bottom set. And even though having a K & Q in your hand does lessen the possibilities of someone making top or middle set here, it is not rare for it to occur. Plus he could also have almost the same hand as you but with an 8 out straight draw instead of just the gutshot you had and have a small freeroll. Leading at the flop allows you to get more information and make a better subsequent decision. Top 2 unlike a set is NOT a good slowplaying/checkraising hand unless headsup against hyper aggressive opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
Top 2 out of position without good backup, especially when playing a larger stack is often just asking for trouble if you escalate it by checkraising multiway. The problem here is that you checked the flop when you should have lead at it to see where you stood (just the same as you should have with a strong draw). Despite the fact the villain is loose and would likely overplay aces, he can still make a legitimate hand occasionally and being loose could easily have raised with something like A332 and show you bottom set. And even though having a K & Q in your hand does lessen the possibilities of someone making top or middle set here, it is not rare for it to occur. Plus he could also have almost the same hand as you but with an 8 out straight draw instead of just the gutshot you had and have a small freeroll. Leading at the flop allows you to get more information and make a better subsequent decision. Top 2 unlike a set is NOT a good slowplaying/checkraising hand unless headsup against hyper aggressive opponents.

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Thanks, this makes sense.


UTG+2 called and showed AAJT. Blanks on the turn and river, and I won a bigass pot.

[45Player]

[ QUOTE ]
Top 2 out of position without good backup, especially when playing a larger stack is often just asking for trouble if you escalate it by checkraising multiway. The problem here is that you checked the flop when you should have lead at it to see where you stood (just the same as you should have with a strong draw). Despite the fact the villain is loose and would likely overplay aces, he can still make a legitimate hand occasionally and being loose could easily have raised with something like A332 and show you bottom set. And even though having a K & Q in your hand does lessen the possibilities of someone making top or middle set here, it is not rare for it to occur. Plus he could also have almost the same hand as you but with an 8 out straight draw instead of just the gutshot you had and have a small freeroll. Leading at the flop allows you to get more information and make a better subsequent decision. Top 2 unlike a set is NOT a good slowplaying/checkraising hand unless headsup against hyper aggressive opponents.

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In most circumstances I would agree with the above. However in this case, I think the OP’s approach (i.e. check-raising) was a better option.
I don’t think the raiser could have a hand like A332. Even if he is quite loose he shouldn’t reraise with that hand pre-flop. It is more likely that he has Aces or a good connecting hand.

4 people saw the flop; the SB and the hero then checked. So it’s up to the pre-flop raiser. Most loose players that I know will bet in this position, especially if they raised pre-flop, AND given that the two players in early position showed weakness by checking. In this example the button is not relevant as he only has a small stack left.

By check-raising the hero can get all his stack into the middle which negates his bad position. Also by checking, it allows the hero to fold if the SB comes in with a big raise.

In summary, I think that most of the time the hero will be ahead of the villain here, but should give the villain the chance to bet at the pot, which I think will happen a high percentage of the time.

Comments / criticism appreciated.

[BluffTHIS!]

A key point in my analysis was that he had very weak backup, only a gutshot, to help in the situations when he is in fact beat on the flop or splitting.