Folding an over pair

[RollaJ]

Setting: Taj 20-40 average 4 to a flop or so.

1 limper to me in middle position and I raise with QQ, all fold to CO who 3 bets (CO has been playing tight for 2 hours and he seems to play very straight forward and doesnt step out of line) all fold back to me and I call.

Flop is 9-7-3 suits irrelevant.

I check-raise and he 3 bets... uh oh

Turn is a 4

I check fold.

I dont think Ive ever folded a high overpair on a non threatning board before, but Here I was almost positive and felt it was a bad choice to call $80 more to find out.

What do you think? There are some people I would call down with a King on board, but here a fold just seemed right.

[Manzanita]

Rollaj,

Given your description of your opponent and the action on the flop I think you made a good fold here.

-- Manzanita

[nykenny]

rollaj,

i used to do the same as u did and be happy to muck. but recently i have changed a bit. i sometimes just call down to river and say nice hand. it doesn't really hurt a whole lot.

Kenny

[Eric P]

roy he probably wouldn't make that same play with jacks, he would probably just call the check raise, granted it would not be "out of line" to do this with JJ, but it is unlikely that this player would A: 3 bet with TT (maybe even 3-betting wiht JJ is a stretch) i belive you should have capped then check-rasied the flop, then if he 3-bet syour check-raise you can probably fold on the turn. anyways i have trouble making this fold a lot of the time but i think it is a good one.

I was re-reading HPFAP and sklansky mentions the play to just call down the whole way (flop included) with an overpair becuase it's cheap if you lose it and you can let AK bluff all the way home, plus you can't get bumped off if they wanna play JJ that way

[drewjustdrew]

I kinda agree with Roy. To three-bet on the button with 88-JJ is not that uncommon - trying to lose the limper and putting the first raiser on a big Ace. Even though the player is described as tight, he is not described as timid.

I would call the turn and river.

[Roy Hobbs]

Would he not make the same play with a pair of tens or jacks?

RH

[Sehr Gut]

I must say im chocked that everybody think this was a good fold. I think its an easy call on both turn and river.
When you raise one limper from MP and just call a LP-reraise it doesnt make him scared that you are holding a monster hand. A checkraise on the flop dont mean anything in my opinion for a straightforward guy who dont play out of line if he holds something like JJ 1010. Its an easy threebet. I think you are missing to think about what he thinks you have. I wouldnt put you on QQ if you played it like that preflop and on the flop.

Sehr Gut

[Ulysses]

First off, against an opponent like this, I'd cap it pre-flop w/ QQ. That'll make it easier to figure out if he has KK/AA. It's not like this guy is someone who will spew a lot of extra bets if you disguise the strength of your hand a bit.

After the flop 3-bet, it's going to cost you 2BB to win 8.5BB if you call him on the turn and river. You don't think he'll have TT or JJ 25% of the time? I'd call him down.

[redwings03]

I had the same scenario in 20-40 at the Mirage. Holding 2 black queens and the betting was almost identical. The turn and river made 4 hearts on the board. She bet out, I showed her the two black queens as I threw them in the muck. She smiled as someone else called her down and showed me the two red queens. So maybe you improving to a set was impossible...maybe he had QQ. Sklansky suggests check calling down after the flop and I am a proponent of this. Sometimes you get the guy sitting there baffled that his A-9 isn't good when 9 is the highest card on the board.

[Diplomat]

I think Ulysses hit is pretty much right on the head here. Conventional/typical play against this player would be to just call his three-bet. But if you four-bet and he five-bets, it's a lot easier to let go of this hand...on the flop.

I don't think you can fold the turn. If the flop were jack-high, a fold would be better.

-Diplomat