This guy is putting me on tilit

silkyslim · #1 10-13-2005, 05:55 PM

Pf raiser is a sub-par TAG. Villain is a loose gammmbler. I bet out so TAG could raise and thin field in a large pot with a pair. That didnt work, but i stil had odds on turn to draw. Fold river or call based on reads? he might be FOS but I dont know

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero ??

ErrantNight · #2 10-13-2005, 05:58 PM

you want to get headsup with a TAG who you think has a higher pair? really?

#3 10-13-2005, 06:02 PM

What is his PFR? I don't think our hand is good often enough that we want to be worried about thinning the field. I think his turn raise means you are crushed like 100% of the time, and we can fold the river.

silkyslim · #4 10-13-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you want to get headsup with a TAG who you think has a higher pair? really?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah i mean i we have middle pair, 6 outs in a big pot. I thought you have to protect in a case like this. do u say c/c this flip? and why?

#5 10-13-2005, 06:23 PM

I think it really depends on how often you think you're ahead of the PFR, but I think we are behind most of the time, so IMO you have to think about what we're trying to protect? What do we want button to fold that is going to help us to win the pot? I think more about this stuff when there are more people in the pot, when we are more likely alreay have the best hand, and where the hand that I am drawing to is more likely to be the best hand if I can fold some people out.

Shillx · #6 10-13-2005, 06:34 PM

Betting the flop is dumb unless you think he will raise with a worse hand. Let's just say that he has AK everytime and raises (for the sake of argument). Who cares if someone folds 77 behind you? In order for it to be significant, the turn and river have to be some combo of 7/9 or 7/Q. If a 7 comes on the turn, it doesn't cost you a whole lot since you were trailing MP1 anyway, and the odds that you outdraw his AK and the 77 outdraws you don't call for the extra investment. You improve your equity by a small amount by getting hands like 77 and K4 and J5 out when you are 2nd best. It isn't worth the extra small bet that you have to invest to get that extra equity.

Now if you have the best hand and can get MP1 to raise AJ or 88 here then by all means go ahead and bet. It just isn't worth cleaning up outs in pots where you don't have the best hand or some kind of draw (usually a gutshot with overs).

Brad

Stove Time

Board: Kd 5d 9h

Hand 1: 17.7388 % 17.74% 00.00% { Qc9c }
Hand 2: 38.1167 % 37.85% 00.27% { AsKs }
Hand 3: 13.7277 % 13.73% 00.00% { 77 }
Hand 4: 11.8608 % 11.59% 00.27% { K4o }
Hand 5: 18.5560 % 18.56% 00.00% { J5o }

Hand 1: 20.0000 % 20.00% 00.00% { Qc9c }
Hand 2: 80.0000 % 80.00% 00.00% { AsKs }

HajiShirazu · #7 10-13-2005, 06:44 PM

I don't like betting the flop but the analysis already given is better than what I can give so read that.
How big of a loose gambler is he? These are the kind of questions that are tough to answer when you don't know. Does the guy raise a hand worse than Q9 on the turn more than 1 time in 11.25? Against most loose and bad people, you shouldn't even call the turn raise because two middle pair aren't going to win against their K5 or 44 or whatever, which is what these people usually need to raise. But if he is a big turn free showdown/bluff guy, yes, call and call the river.

damaniac · #8 10-13-2005, 08:07 PM

I don't think he's raising anything you beat, and I don't think he's folding that much that beats you. Kinda depends if he's subpar in that he calls a little too much or folds too much.

River is tough really only because he's a loose gambler. If he was semibluffing a flush draw it came in, about the only thing you can hope is that he had a busted OESD or a worse nine or was just being flatout retarded. If he's loose aggressive at all, you're probably good about that often. If not, I think you can fold...

alul · #9 10-13-2005, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That didnt work, but i stil had odds on turn to draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you have the odds to call the turn raise, but I think, you created this situation yourself by being overaggressive with middle pair. If you want to draw, check-call the turn. Just my opinion, I maybe wrong.

BTW what do FOS and FYP stand for? Sorry for silly question, English is not my native.

private joker · #10 10-13-2005, 08:35 PM

I'm checking this flop. I peel if it's one back to me. Then I check/fold the turn UI. Q9 is a marginal hand to begin with, and I'm not going to suffer the reverse implied odds of going to showdown with middle pair.