Did I go too far with AKo??

#1 09-21-2005, 10:05 PM

Table slightly over 30% VPIP
No reads on this Villian

Ultimate Bet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls.
I could have capped this, but decided 3betting this time to mix up play...I have no regrets on this play

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks, CO bets, Hero calls, Villian calls.
Flop didnt help me so I checked to the Pre-flop raiser thinking he would bet, and he did...

Turn: (6.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks, CO bets, Hero calls, Villian calls.
Was I right to call this? I am not too sure, advice plz...

River: (9.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, Villian calls, CO folds.
After looking back on this I have no idea why I bet this when I dont have anything thats most likely not beat...and I didnt do it thinking i would scare Villian away...
Final Pot: 11.70 BB
All help appreciated
Hades18

closer2313 · #2 09-21-2005, 10:10 PM

I fold the turn with no read. You just have 2 overcards worth about 3 outs and aren't getting nearly the odds to continue.

numeri · #3 09-21-2005, 10:11 PM

Double ugh...

My best recommendation is to read and reply in other threads before posting all of your own hands. You'll learn quite a bit more.

At least you did a bit better on this hand than the JJ one. Tell me, would you rather have AK or JJ on this hand? Which one is easier to play? Can you see why you need to raise JJ pre-flop?

Anyway, I digress. The flop call is debatable. Since you didn't give a read on CO, can you put him/her on a range of hands? That will make your flop decision easier.

You should be gone on the turn, and the river is horrible. By the way, who is villain? The pre-flop raiser, or MP1 who keeps calling along?

#4 09-21-2005, 10:52 PM

Villian was MP1 who kept calling along the whole time, and I def agree I should have folded the turn, but i didnt see that till after the hand...
I would rather have JJ this hand cause than I would have flopped 2 pair...
Hades18

numeri · #5 09-21-2005, 10:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian was MP1 who kept calling along the whole time

[/ QUOTE ]
OK - so why is he/she the villain? I'd be more worried about the CO who keeps betting.

[ QUOTE ]
I would rather have JJ this hand cause than I would have flopped 2 pair...

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course - but I wanted to point out that there are lots of good flops for JJ. This one is perfect. Don't be afraid of raising it preflop just because there are 3 overcards.

Redd · #6 09-21-2005, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villian was MP1 who kept calling along the whole time

[/ QUOTE ]
OK - so why is he/she the villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because he won the hand [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Yeah, everyone's already said it better than I could. Fold the turn and don't bet the riv.

#7 09-21-2005, 11:23 PM

I think I'd call the flop for one bet as you have have the odds, but since you are probably behind, you're OOP and you have no reads it's a bit marginal.

Without a very strong read I'm folding the turn.

Are you lacking reads because MP1 and CO just joined the table - or did you just join? If so, everyone else is out of the hand and almost certainly not paying attention, so not capping to mix it up sounds a bit suspect.

I usually don't cap with AKo here either. If you did, you'd want a few more likely callers in the pot. It's a powerful drawing hand, but is often overvalued and when it misses your position is really disadvantages you post flop.

SavageMiser · #8 09-22-2005, 01:19 AM

Fold the turn. At the very least, Villian has something worth calling on the flop. Could be a deuce, could be a small PP.

AK no good here.

testaaja · #9 09-22-2005, 02:17 AM

The flop call is ok because it is very likely that you have either the best or second best hand and maybe got 2 overcards. Sure I think it would be good to raise here too to maybe get a free card. You got to fold the turn unimproved. Even if you got 2 overcards someone could have you beaten so badly and you are drawing to a 6.7:1 shot so I think it would be correct to fold the turn. The river donk what can I say. I make it sometimes too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] but generally I think it is a bad play. You are getting 9.7:1 so I think it can be slightly profitable.

Student Caine · #10 09-22-2005, 03:37 AM

So I am taking the Wookie/Grunch challenge...I probably won't get 5 for today since it's like midnight, but I wanted to hit this one at least:

Hand Selection: Obviously AKo is good for a raise UTG. I personally like to cap the betting with AKo for two reasons:

1) It is a strong hand and if you don't have an equity advantage you are very close (i.e., you should not be way behind on equity here unless you have a strong read on an extremely tight player pre-flop).

2) If you do not cap, you are stating that you are not holding a monster, just a strong starting hand (e.g., AKs-AJs, AKo-AJo, JJ, TT, maybe even QQ). I am not sure what the value of this is at a micro-limit level, but I believe that the small deception can be good and may even help you slow down QQ, JJ, or TT if you come out strong on the flop. Does anyone think I am off base here?

Pot Odds and Outs:

Flop: The way I see it, we are drawing to 2 overcards outs and that's about it here. I think the fact that the board has already paired and we could be up against AA or KK in the CO as well as being reverse dominated (I hate to think that someone played A2s, but it is possible) we need to discount our overcards to 3 outs. This means that we need to be getting roughly 15:1 odds to call here. That being the case, you do not have odds to call here if you think you have to improve to win. But there is a chance that we are up against other Broadway type hands...how does this figure in to the equation?

Turn: Obviously if the flop does not offer the odds, we don't have them on the Turn.

Pot Equity: So I checked Pokerstove against the following hand ranges:

CO = AA-TT, AKs-AQs, and AKo
MP2 = AJs-A2s, KJs, AQo, AJo, TT-22

And I came up with us as having 13% equity at the flop. Obviously we are not looking to pump this draw here, but I did this as more of an exercise to try and determine hand ranges. Do you think that the range for CO is too tight (obviously, we know that he did not have a big PP as he folded the river, but at the start of the hand we don't know this)? MP2 too loose? In the absence of reads I tried to keep the cold caller a bit loose (as we often see in Micro Limits), but keep the 3-better to a tighter hand range.

So if I understand Equity correctly then we have to assume that we are going to pay 2.5BB minimum to see a showdown. If we assume that both players will see the showdown with us then this means that the pot will have 10.20BB (this should not count the 2.5BB that we put in). So we own 13% of that, which is about 1.3BB. This means that we should not proceed based upon the fact that we are paying 2.5BB when we only "own" 1.3BB here. Is this a correct view of equity?

Betting and Raising for Value: I don't think that this applies here as we are probably behind at this point.

Knowing when to fold at the River: Well you bet the river here, which seems like a strange play. I think that with the pot this big you will not be folding out any hands that tie or beat you (which you already realize).

However, if you checked here and MP2 bet into you I think that I would fold if CO calls and call if CO folds. You need to be good here like 1 in 10 to make this a profitable call. I don't think this is possible if you are overcalling, but could be possible if you just have one opponent.