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Old 11-10-2004, 01:52 PM
37offsuit 37offsuit is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Default NJ Poker Room Outside of AC

NJ State Law States that Gambling is illegal, but then goes on to define gambling as:

a. "Contest of chance" means any contest, game, pool, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants or some other persons may also be a factor therein.

b. "Gambling" means staking or risking something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under the actor's control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.

It would seem to me that in order for a Poker game to be legal in NJ, one would only have to prove that the outcome does not depend "materially" on chance. When I looked up materially, I got:

To a significant extent or degree; substantially.

And then on to significant which has a statistical definition, among others:

Statistics. Of or relating to observations or occurrences that are too closely correlated to be attributed to chance and therefore indicate a systematic relationship.

So, under all of these definitions, wouldn't the ability of each player to bet, raise or fold completely dispell any notion of random chance? If a player folds, his chances of winning become zero. If a player raises and at least one person folds, then if everything else is completely random (we know that it is not because there are known cards to players which increase or decrease the likelihood of winning or losing) then all of the remaining players' chances have increased because of a participant's actions.

That is to say, if you compare it to a random chance game like a lottery, if ten people buy a ticket with a single number of their choosing and then a ball is picked at random from a drum containing all available numbers for selection, even if 9 of the 10 people rip up their tickets without seeing what number came out, the 10th person has no increased chance of winning.

In poker, we find the exact opposite. When 9 out of 10 players fold their hands, the 10th player wins 100% of the time. If 8 players fold their hands, then if it were truly random, both remaining players would win only 50% of the time. Again, we know this is untrue. It is possible to know with 100% certainty that you will win a hand of poker, even sometimes before the hand is finished. Suppose someone flops a royal flush in Texas Holdem. That person knows 100% that they have won the hand even before the final two cards come.

As a funny side note, if you read the second part of the definition of gambling above, it would seem to apply to car insurance as much as poker.
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