CardPlayer Forums Launched

Dan Mezick · #1 09-04-2004, 06:34 PM

As of Saturday afternoon 9/4 it appears CardPlayer is making a bid to compete with 2+2 and others in the business of growing poker community forums.

They have a 'Women' section which I thought was pretty interesting, other than that it seems like a 2+2 clone. There are scant posts up there right now, it apparently launched today without fanfare or PR-- that I could see.

2+2 is by far the best poker forum worldwide IMO.

Cardplayer's bid for critical mass and quality will be interesting to observe as it unfolds. There is little doubt 2+2ers have a very high loyalty quotient.

ChristinaB · #2 09-04-2004, 06:56 PM

Free T-shirt?

Dan Mezick · #3 09-04-2004, 07:34 PM

Tee shirt, yes. Hey that going to attract some quality posts, no?

As I look at the CardPlayer forum, I see a huge effort in front of them.

Certainly they have the magazine. Fine.

The way this (2+2) forum is run, it's very decentralized and peer to peer. Some centralized banning occurs etc but for the most part it's got a vibrant ecosystem of (loyal active knowledgeable) posters that is largely self-governing in a purely P2P internet kind of way.

The posters here seem loyal and make some truly astonishing, high-quality posts. It could be the good books of 2+2 that attracts these high-quality posters but somehow I doubt that. I think it has more to do with the way things are governed which in turn keeps and attracts more loyalty and quality.

HMOs and poker community forums have this characteristic in common: for every healthy member I gain, that is one healthy member I deny my competition.

The post quality is incredible here relative to comparables. I do not think the advent of 'yet another message board' is going to change that anytime soon-- regardless of where it's from.

Mason Malmuth · #4 09-04-2004, 09:58 PM

Hi Dan:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
The posters here seem loyal and make some truly astonishing, high-quality posts. It could be the good books of 2+2 that attracts these high-quality posters but somehow I doubt that. I think it has more to do with the way things are governed which in turn keeps and attracts more loyalty and quality.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's all these things. But whatever the reasons are, the quality of these forums and the vigor of the debate is truly amazing. There's no question that those of you who participate regularly here will improve the level of their games, and this goes for David, Ray, and myself, as well as the rest of the Two Plus Two family.

Thanks for the suppoort.

Best wishes,
Mason

Mason Malmuth · #5 09-04-2004, 07:21 PM

Hi Dan:

Thanks for letting us know about this.

Just to set the record straight, and so everyone knows exactly where I stand on this, Two Plus Two Publishing LLC severed all relationships we had with Card Player.

For those who want to do a search, there were previous posts on these forums. See below.

Two Plus Two Thread

Best wishes,
Mason

tyfromm · #6 09-04-2004, 07:45 PM

There are dozens and dozens of poker forums. None compare to 2+2.

Having a quality forum and mediocre articles in the related magazine is incompatible. Their forum is destined to be mediocre. Too bad, I don't wish them ill, but it doesn't look promising.

Dan Mezick · #7 09-04-2004, 07:54 PM

A great example of what makes this board great is the recent 'stranger' post about a site called 'PokerNoob'.

[ QUOTE ]
I found a great poker site called http://pokernoob.com . They have forums articles and a lot of stuff 2+2 doesn't have. The admins are active there. You guys should come. pokernoob.com !
- Will Macentire

[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 forums in a real sense are the upper-end of the worldwide poker community. For me 2+2 is about the quality. Posts like this therefore pose no threat and are not viewed as such by 'management' here.

2+2 is the leader ... in a very P2P, merit-driven kind of way. This forum is in a real sense the leading poker publication precisely because it's governed in a way that promotes the best thinking at all times from the most participants. The 2+2 forums are actually an outstanding example of what the internet is good for.

"True leadership cannot be awarded, appointed or assigned. It comes only from influence and that can't be mandated." - Maxwell

Freudian · #8 09-07-2004, 03:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A great example of what makes this board great is the recent 'stranger' post about a site called 'PokerNoob'.

[ QUOTE ]
I found a great poker site called http://pokernoob.com . They have forums articles and a lot of stuff 2+2 doesn't have. The admins are active there. You guys should come. pokernoob.com !
- Will Macentire

[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 forums in a real sense are the upper-end of the worldwide poker community. For me 2+2 is about the quality. Posts like this therefore pose no threat and are not viewed as such by 'management' here.

2+2 is the leader ... in a very P2P, merit-driven kind of way. This forum is in a real sense the leading poker publication precisely because it's governed in a way that promotes the best thinking at all times from the most participants. The 2+2 forums are actually an outstanding example of what the internet is good for.

"True leadership cannot be awarded, appointed or assigned. It comes only from influence and that can't be mandated." - Maxwell

[/ QUOTE ]

2+2 are in lack for a better word the most 'scientific' poker forum anywhere. Any concept can and will be challenged by people that have knowledge and experience. Thus flawed thinking will not stand unopposed. And on the other side of the same coin, the veteran posters can not rely on authority alone but have to show their capabilities by posting stuff that makes sense.

Poker is one of these fields where dogma will not help anyone. Making an argument that is logical does.

Mason Malmuth · #9 09-07-2004, 03:50 AM

Hi Freudian:

I want to add a little more to what you state. It just happens to be that those of us involved with Two Plus Two are also players, and it has always been to our advantage to try to improve our games. The better we understand poker/gambling, the better Two Plus Two will be in general.

Thus we have always welcomed competition even though I'm often accused of the opposite. We have no objection to competing with others, and it has always been our policy to lead our readers to any material that we feel is good whether we publish it or not.

Most important, we encourage vigorous debate on these forums and feel that everyone benefits from this process. And for those sites that offer things which we don't, that's more than fine. We stick with only what we do well.

Best wishes,
Mason

Dan Mezick · #10 09-04-2004, 08:06 PM

I'm sure David Sklansky could express this better, but I'll try.

The edge 2+2 has in the community space is in part proportional to the square of the years of successful operation.

This likely stems from a combination of a)depth of understanding of the intricate dynamics of community by management over time, and b)some kind of linear relation between years of operation and overall membership quality.

Whatever the secret formula actually is, 2+2's got it.