JJ Vs LAG on montone K high flop.

[POKhER]

<font color="orange"> PT Stats on button:
70/4/2.3 @ 68hands.

Interesting player, I've seen him bet flush draws HU, then bet/call a raise on the turn UI and call river with King high( Him W/KJs 5Q339 VS QQ(PFR))

Other than that hand, i forget the others notes(he just left the table and i cant check). He misplaces agression though.
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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

<font color="blue">
Although his low PFR i want to isolate him, So i 3bet JJ and it fails. </font>

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP2 folds, Button calls.

<font color="blue"> So i have flush draw(To third nuts)+Middlepair.
I Check-raise the flop thinking i'd get rid of some weak kings, buy a free card, isolate the button and potential value as i may be ahead. </font>

Turn: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

<font color="blue"> Standard bet as i think i'm ahead, He's done some crazy stuff with flush's and misplaces agression etc. </font>

River: (10.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

<font color="blue">Blah, i don't know to Bet/Fold or Check/Call? I begin to think i've screwed this hand big time now...</font>

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

I like everything but the river, I think you could fold there. Even if villain is loose pf he's not that aggressive so his raising hands contains an A or K a lot of the time. In fact he might even be calling with the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and outdrawing you on the river.

[POKhER]

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I like everything but the river, I think you could fold there. Even if villain is loose pf he's not that aggressive so his raising hands contains an A or K a lot of the time. In fact he might even be calling with the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and outdrawing you on the river.

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He's very aggressive @ 2.3AF over 70hands with a VPIP of 70+ bro

[aargh57]

I think you have to grit and fold here. I just don't see what he could have that you can beat here with the possible exeption of a low pp which seems unlikely given his pfr %. Even against a relatively low number of hands I don't see him raising without a face card and just about any combination has you beat. Even if you give him credit for raising more hands than 4% his range has got to look something like pp 8's and up, big broadway and little suited broadway. The only ones you'll beat are 88 and JT's. I think he got you with that A. Just the combinations make me think he's bluffing less than the 8.5% of the time he has to be to make this profitable. If he'd have limped it would be an easy call.

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I like everything but the river, I think you could fold there. Even if villain is loose pf he's not that aggressive so his raising hands contains an A or K a lot of the time. In fact he might even be calling with the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and outdrawing you on the river.

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He's very aggressive @ 2.3AF over 70hands with a VPIP of 70+ bro

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I meant preflop.

Everyone so far seems to like your play prior to the river. I'm not a fan of the flop, and I stopped reading there.

Why check-raise the flop and not bet out? You're isolating against the guy you fear (button), to whom you may already be beat. Why not make it easy for the other 2 to fund your chances against the button? Make them call 1 bet, not 2. If you try the check-raise and the other 2 have the A/K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], they aren't folding anyway, so your protection move probably only works when they don't have those cards. Also, why would you want lower diamonds or middle pairs to fold? You don't!!

Since it seems no one likes this, why?

[aargh57]

While it's true you're not folding a K or the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you would still like to get non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Aces or Q's to fold. If you are behind villain you still may have outs against him as you're now drawing to the 3rd nut flush plus you could still win with if you hit your set. If you bet out you're giving the field 14 to one odds to call making it correct to call with one overcard to your jacks. If you check/raise you force them to choose between 7.5 to one or folding. If they don't have the correct odds to call you're now in a win win situation.

[ QUOTE ]
While it's true you're not folding a K or the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you would still like to get non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Aces or Q's to fold.

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Oh man, why? If they have a non diamond A or Q, then they have 2 A outs or 2 Q outs to pull ahead of us. Why am I forcing out a 4-outer that I might redraw to beat anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
If you are behind villain you still may have outs against him as you're now drawing to the 3rd nut flush plus you could still win with if you hit your set. If you bet out you're giving the field 14 to one odds to call making it correct to call with one overcard to your jacks. If you check/raise you force them to choose between 7.5 to one or folding. If they don't have the correct odds to call you're now in a win win situation.

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Continuing to assume the middle 2 don't have the A or K of diamonds, since they then wouldn't care if they had to call 2 rather than 1, my equity is pretty close to the same with them in than if they are out (granted a tad lower with them in). I don't much care if the complement of my equity is split between the middle people &amp; the button. If I c/r and force out the middle players, my equity marginally increases. But now I don't have 2 other players funding me to continue with the hand.

[aargh57]

You're not forcing them out. You're giving them improper pot odds to chase. If a guy calls with improper pot odds then good. If he folds you've increased your winning chances and put more dead money in the pot so that's also good. When you give him 15 to one you can accomplish neither. With a pot this big you'd love to buy 4 outs.

[ QUOTE ]
You're not forcing them out. You're giving them improper pot odds to chase. If a guy calls with improper pot odds then good. If he folds you've increased your winning chances and put more dead money in the pot so that's also good. When you give him 15 to one you can accomplish neither. With a pot this big you'd love to buy 4 outs.

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Forum, little help ?!? [Edit: To either correct me or help me explain.]

First tell me if you think we're drawing? Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. If we're behind the button &amp; drawing, then you're not buying 4 outs here by folding MPs. Those 4 cards don't improve your hand so it doesn't matter if they stay in and pull ahead of the button on the turn. Thus, your equity is only slightly lower if they are in w/o the A/K of D. If they hit these non-D A/Q on the turn, you probably have the same chance to improve on the river (minus the small chance MPs now have boat outs).

You should make sure that every chip you put in on the flop is matched by enough chips so that you profit on this round of betting. With a c/r, you bet 2 to win 2. Do you have &gt; 50% equity here? I say no. With a bet, perhaps you have all 3 coming along for 1 (or 2) each. Then you need 25% equity to have made $. You probably have that.

By betting out you are right that they have better odds to continue than if they had to call 2 cold. So what? If they don't have the A/K of diamonds, you don't want them to fold, period. Keep them there by calling your piddly 1 first.