Is a 4xBB likely a strong hand?

[betgo]

I know that theoretically a big raise means a weaker hand. However, I have found in practice that a 4xBB raise is generally a strong hand.

[gumpzilla]

This is so very, very dependent on the players and the table that I think that this is a pretty worthless guideline to keep in mind. Numerous players will use 4xBB for basically everything. For some players it will be on the smaller end of their bets. What is much better is to watch particular players and see how they change (or not) and see what you can glean from that.

[Solitare]

After playing in NL cash games, I have begun to better appreciate the value of raising more than the standard 3xBB, and have brought the 3.5-4xBB raise into my tournament play.

I like the approach Phil Gordon takes in his "Little Green Book" -- vary randomly between 3 and 4 x BB, but be more inlined to raise 3-3.5xBB in EP and 3.5-4xBB in LP.

I think the meaning of the 4xBB raise is player dependent and should not be automatically read as "strong hand". Just as the 2xBB miniraise should not be automatically read as "weak hand".

[betgo]

I know this is all true theorectically, but I noticed 4xBB is usually a strong hand in samll to medium buyin live and online tournaments.

[stevepa]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this is all true theorectically, but I noticed 4xBB is usually a strong hand in samll to medium buyin live and online tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree in small-mid buy-in tournies. I find that when people whose standard raise is 3xBB all of a sudden raise 4-5xBB they usually have a strong hand that they're scared to play postflop (88-QQ, AK/AQ). Obviously not 100% accurate but against straightforward players I give a lot more credit to the bigger raise.

Steve

I know personally that my standard raise is 3x BB, but I often find myself doing a 4x+ BB raise when I have a "vulnerable" pocket pair, 88-QQ. This is especially true in the middle stages of a tournament when the stack sizes can be rather awkward. Early on I might raise more, but that's just because fish will call with crap. Late I typically stick with my standard raise or push.

I know if I see someone who has been standard raising 3x BB and they suddenly bet 4x BB+ when they could have easily bet 3x BB, I'm pretty sure they have a vulnerable pair.

Is a 3.6457 xbb raise likley KQo attempting to protect his hand when he flops top two pair on a monotone flop?

AKA- Never is a 4x BB a guarantee or even likley to be a strong or weak hand. It is always dependant upon that particular player, and that player only.

For me personally, I use the 3X BB + 2X Limpers formula for my raises. I would only raise 4X BB just to vary things against a shark.