I was SO confused this hand

golfboy7 · #1 11-05-2005, 08:30 PM

I didn't have PAH up when playing this hand so I don't want to give the stats of the players because I'd like to see what you guys think of my thought and play on the hand.

Pre flop, I KNOW it's standard.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, SB calls, BB caps, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

When I see this flop, I'm thinking I have a good hand with a nice draw. This action gets intense though. I'm thinking SB has J10s the way he's been calling pre flop and raising this flop.

Flop: (20 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn card comes and immediately I think, 'good, I have 4 more outs.'

Turn: (16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

I whiff the river and begin thinking of how the hand was played. What hands could SB have? I went through the LARGE list of hands that would beat me that he would play like he did: including AJs J10s and JJ/1010.

When MP called the river bet I felt that I could safely fold because I can see the cards of my opponents and won't let one of them take it down. Also, I figured if the SB didn't have me beat then MP MUST have me beat if he can call.
River: (19 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 21 BB

I'll post results a little later.

edited for clarity

#2 11-05-2005, 08:47 PM

I think your river fold is terrible, and I would three bet the flop. You have a good (not great) chance of being ahead, but also something like five outs in a big put even if behind.

The turn of course gives you a double gutshot, meaning you can see the river, and on the river I would pay them off, knowing I have a very small chance of being good, but it is such a large pot it is worth paying off with.

Folding the turn would be just terrible. You often have 10 outs here.

golfboy7 · #3 11-05-2005, 08:56 PM

expecting MANY replies like this one.

Please, LET ME HAVE IT people. I am being COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SERIOUS.

Call me horrible for this fold. Belittle me. Because damnit, I need you people to absolutely BEAT IT INTO MY THICK SKULL that I have to look at ALL the factors before I make my decision.

Mainly, this hand: POT SIZE

Yako · #4 11-05-2005, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the turn would be just terrible. You often have 8 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my very first FYP. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
You really think the Queens are outs often here?

Harv72b · #5 11-06-2005, 02:51 AM

The only reason I can think of for not 3-betting the flop is that you were waiting for a safe turn card to raise on, and with a hand as vulnerable as QQ on a very draw-heavy flop, that would be bad. You've got an overpair, you've got plenty of draws that'll put more bets into the pot for you, and you've got 3 opponents sticking around--it doesn't get much better than that.

Turn is fine. Raising doesn't seem like a good idea, as you hate to be 3-bet here (unless you river a non-diamond K).

I don't think folding the river for 1 bet is terrible, but vs. two unknowns (which you're treating these players as) & getting 21:1, it ain't good either. You only have to be up against SB's busted flush draw & MP2's KJ 5% of the time to make this a good call.

golfboy7 · #6 11-06-2005, 12:10 PM

Yeah, I really felt sick to my stomach after this hand

REsults in white below:
 SB shows Kd7d 
 MP shows 910offsuit and wins

LImitPlayer · #7 11-06-2005, 12:16 PM

I would have 3 bet the flop. The hand would have played out differently had you taken contol of it.

paperboyNC · #8 11-06-2005, 12:46 PM

golfboy, you don't fold the river. See this hand I posted:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post3864340

shabamgoddam · #9 11-06-2005, 04:18 PM

$4 into an $84 pot. i don't think its even a choice. 21:1 gotta call. i certainly don't expect to win often but the $$$ makes the decsion for you.

Redd · #10 11-06-2005, 04:28 PM

Harv, how often do you estimate we're ahead on the flop? MY first instinct was to 3-bet, but if we discount the pf-capper to only raise AK like half the time here, we're a pretty big dog to his range. And we don't really clean up any outs by 3-betting here.