Help me I am getting killed!

Mercman572 · #1 06-01-2005, 02:20 AM

After several months of 2+2 reading and successful play at 25 NL i decided to make the jump to 50NL. I primarily play party and consistently win at that level, 4 tabling with a PTBB 11/100. I had heard that party 50NL is no different, just play your game and you'll stomp it etc etc... however i am finding this to not be the case. In my limited ventures there i am struggling to break even. There is a PFR of about 4BB almost every hand at most tables i play and i am seeing some hands i never would have expected too, and since i don't expect them i am losing.

I don't know if its just been coincidence (I've only played about 2500 hands at this level so far) or if i need to adjust to these players, but i am finding many of them much more aggressive, many to be tight, and then others that call with a ridiculous amount of hands.

A few players through my tables were bull bull agressive. Tonight was the first time i've tilted in a very long time, and it came because i felt like i was playing weak tight or that nothing i was doing seemed to be working. As a result my play changed and probably not for the better. Tonight might also have just been a wacky night. Comment on these 3 hands please. at least one of the three i severly regret how i played them.

Should i be making adjustments changing to this limit or is my sample WAY to small to worry about general differences between the two limits?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

BB ($63.25)
UTG ($32.5)
UTG+1 ($17.74)
MP1 ($115.64)
MP2 ($124.02)
MP3 ($30.55)
CO ($79.45)
Button ($49.65)
Hero ($45.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets $1, Hero calls $1, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $5, Hero calls $5.

River: ($14) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Final Pot: $34

Few questions on this one: i used to raise this from the SB preflop and try to win blinds or get it heads up, i had read here that may not be a good idea...thoughts on limping vs raising this? villain was average/loose at a tight aconfrontational table. my thoughts were a weak stab at the flop just bc it was checked to him. turn i figure i have nut flush draw and live overs (over optimistic)?

Hand 2
before i get ripped for this one, villain was super lag (vpip 53% and PFR 49%) and up a large amount. i had seen him raise 5 BB on the button with 57 os and push someone in with a gut draw on the flop. plus i was tilting a bit here

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

UTG ($59.9)
UTG+1 ($159.35)
MP1 ($49.25)
MP2 ($37.4)
CO ($50)
Button ($55.81)
Hero ($55.55)
BB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.5. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 raises to $2, 4 folds, Hero (poster) calls $1.75, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($7) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5, UTG+1 raises to $10, Hero raises to $20, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $10.

Turn: ($52) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $40, Hero calls $33.55 (All-In).

River: ($125.55) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $125.55

did i get carried away calling on this after i got reraised twice?

last one...this is me experimenting. comments all around on this one please.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($39.68)
CO ($48.75)
Button ($50.28)
SB ($51.15)
BB ($107.62)
UTG ($19.35)
UTG+1 ($50.77)
UTG+2 ($88.2)
MP1 ($44.97)
Hero ($22.23)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $4, Hero calls $4, Button folds, UTG calls $17.35 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $13.35.
Final Pot: $47.45
first, this was the raise for about every hand at this table, is my position good enough to call the PF raise? second, how are my calling odds? my call on the plop put 16 in the pot, villains raise made the pot 30 something. i am assuming my flush draw is good. 8:30 on pot odds right? i am kind of iffy on this still but it was $8 more bucks to me and after mine and villains bets there was 30 in the pot. what is my chance of hitting this oesfd, about 45%?

thanks for any input guys i'll post results after i get a few comments

theredpill5 · #2 06-01-2005, 02:32 AM

Party Poker is tough . It is. People talk about party as if it is nearly free money. It isn't. Party Poker happens to be one of the toughest sites NL-wise that I've played. You are playing with guys that are doing this for a living. You need to realize that. I'm not saying they are unbeatable but the tables are tough. I think the $25 NL games are somewhat tough so I can only imagine what the 50 NL is like. BTW, how many hands have you played at this limit ? If you've only played 1000 then, I don't think you've played enough. There will definitely be an adjustment period for you. You need to adjust to the money and I recommend only playing $50NL for a while so that you can properly adjust to the betting amounts.

theredpill5 · #3 06-01-2005, 02:42 AM

Ok, just looked at your hands.

Hand 1) If you are going to limp with AQ, when you miss, fold on flop. Trust me, you'll save money in the long run. You have no idea what you are up against. You could be drawing nearly dead. This type of hand is a definitely leak in your game, in my opinion. Need to fold those overcards AK , etc, when you miss unless you feel that your opponent is good enough to fold a better hand or will basically fold. I would only make continuation bets against tight players.

Hand 2) This hand doesn't look bad expect for your turn call. Ok, he could be raising to $10 with AK on the flop. It's unlikely but it's possible. Call flop bet but definitely fold to the turn bet. He's not betting Ace high on the turn. You are definitely beat. These two hands look like you are on tilt, actually.

It's always difficult moving up to another limit. It kind of looks like you are just really impatient right now and perhaps maybe trying a little too hard. You are good player and just realize this and be more patient.

BZ_Zorro · #4 06-01-2005, 02:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker happens to be one of the toughest sites NL-wise that I've played.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL

I get killed at the lower levels too, especially $50. $100 full and $200 6max is a walk in the park compared to $50NL. I just don't get it.

Malachii · #5 06-01-2005, 03:17 AM

That first hand is awful. Fold it on the flop and be done with it. Never chase with overcards.

The second hand isn't much better. On the flop I like going for a checkraise, fold if he reraises you. On the turn, you check (presumably because you feel you're behind) and then call off your whole stack. This can't be good poker.

Last hand, your call of the push is fine, although I would prefer raising the flop myself. This is a huge draw which you want to play aggressively. You're better than even money with a pair, so playing it to its conclusion (whatever that might be) is high variance but +EV. By playing it aggressively, you generate additional fold equity, which increases its profitability. Great semibluff spot, you've got to raise.

Hope this helps!

Malachii · #6 06-01-2005, 03:21 AM

Zorro, I haven't read any of your posts except for the trash talking one and don't know you at all, but you're really coming off like a dick. I'm sure that's not how you intend to come off, but that's my impression of you as a neutral observer. Hopefully I'm wrong.

FreakDaddy · #7 06-01-2005, 03:33 AM

In order to be successful at party 50NL, you have to be able to know how to play the weak players vs. the decent player and the semi-smart LAG's from the stupid LAGs. It's also essential to know who the look-up artist are vs. the calling stations. Being able to discern from these players will put you solidly in the green. You should be able to beat these level for at least 10PTBB/100. Don't stress too much, you're sample size is too small. I didn't really find any great players at this level. That being said, here are the holes in your game as I see them.

Hand 1
Raise pre-flop. You're out of position and you want to get this down to HU.
Check/raise the turn. You have adequate fold equity here. It's a great place to semi-bluff. You're either way behind to a boat here, or some junk hand A8? OR you're actually ahead with plenty of solid outs.
I would have gone for the blocking bet here ($7). Chances are it will get called and save you a few bucks.

Hand 2
No comment. It was badly played all the way around, so I'm not going to say much here. This is another good check/raise spot on the flop though. It's not a bad lead, but I'd definetly bet more and set the tone if you're going to lead.

Hand 3
Raise the flop. Why are you flat calling this?

FreakDaddy · #8 06-01-2005, 03:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That first hand is awful. Fold it on the flop and be done with it. Never chase with overcards.

The second hand isn't much better. On the flop I like going for a checkraise, fold if he reraises you. On the turn, you check (presumably because you feel you're behind) and then call off your whole stack. This can't be good poker.

Last hand, your call is fine, although I would prefer raising the flop myself. This is a huge draw which you want to play aggressively. You're better than even money with a pair, so playing it to its conclusion (whatever that might be) is high variance but +EV. By playing it aggressively, you generate additional fold equity, which increases its profitability. Great semibluff spot, you've got to raise.

Hope this helps!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually there are times to 'chase' with over cards, and this is one of them. It depends of course on your read. This isn't a bad situation. The person who bet has position and is on a likely bluff or semi-bluff considering the board. Hero also has most credibility firing at this on the turn since he's coming out of the SB. You can easily steal this pot and hero has solid over cards.

BZ_Zorro · #9 06-01-2005, 03:57 AM

ty for your honesty, in that case I shall cease and desist. I'm not joking about getting killed at the 50s though, and the 100s being much easier. I'm sure there are others who share the experience.

Apologies to OP for the off topic.

lehighguy · #10 06-01-2005, 04:14 AM

1) Raise preflop.
Fold postflop (based on your preflop action).
2) Re-Raise preflop.
This will clear up your postflop.
3) Fold.
You odds on OESFD are 55%. However, all of your outs may not be live. Villian may be packing higher flush draw or set. That being said I think you should raise the flop. Maybe you'll buy it right there, maybe you'll get a free card on the turn. It will mask your flush draw. And you are actually getting positive pot equity.